I'm asking this because it's one of the questions that's hard to answer on one's own. Specifically because it takes experience with the product that you don't get from a simple test paddle at a dealer. What do PaddleWise people think of Epic Paddles? Speaking from experience, of course. I'm curious about a couple of things. One is the length-lock. Do you find it convenient? Sufficiently rigid? Easy to adjust? Another is the overall construction and use of carbon fiber blades. How is the overall durability? Do you find their asking price worth it for the product provided? And finally, what do you think of the blade shape (looking at the Active Touring model in particular). Any comparison to Steve Schleicher's "Feather" design for Nimbus Paddles? Any well grounded opinions are appreciated. TIA! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: <jwd_at_acm.org> > What do PaddleWise people think of Epic Paddles? Speaking from > experience, of course. JWD, I've barrowed a friends Epic Wayfarer a few times and found that it fluttered terribly in the water. Otherwise, it seemed pretty nice, which was a real shame, because the fluttering in the water was bad enough that I would never buy or use one. I recommend Werner or Lightning, or if you want to go inexpensive, AquaBound. I've heard good things about Lendal, but I haven't tried one. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A friend of mine complained about flutter in a paddle she was thinking of buying. I told her it was a good paddle and if she used it for a while the flutter would disappear. Sure enough it did. I find flutter is a technique specific problem and the technique that eliminates flutter in one paddle may not for another, however if you use a paddle for a while you automatically adjust your technique and the flutter disappears. The best solution for flutter I have heard widely talked about is the "canted" stroke advocated by some Greenland style paddlers. This technique seems to automatically eliminate flutter, and when I look at my own stroke with a Euro paddle I see that it is "canted" even though I never consciously incorporated the technique. Nick On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 03:43 PM, Strosaker wrote: > From: <jwd_at_acm.org> >> What do PaddleWise people think of Epic Paddles? Speaking from >> experience, of course. > > JWD, > > I've barrowed a friends Epic Wayfarer a few times and found that it > fluttered terribly in the water. Otherwise, it seemed pretty nice, > which was > a real shame, because the fluttering in the water was bad enough that I > would never buy or use one. I recommend Werner or Lightning, or if you > want > to go inexpensive, AquaBound. I've heard good things about Lendal, but > I > haven't tried one. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 08:01:03PM -0400, Nick Schade wrote: > The best solution for flutter I have heard widely talked about is the > "canted" stroke advocated by some Greenland style paddlers. This > technique seems to automatically eliminate flutter, and when I look at > my own stroke with a Euro paddle I see that it is "canted" even though > I never consciously incorporated the technique. Euro paddle? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane wrote: >>>>>>I've barrowed a friends Epic Wayfarer a few times and found that it fluttered terribly in the water. Otherwise, it seemed pretty nice, which was a real shame, because the fluttering in the water was bad enough that I would never buy or use one. I recommend Werner or Lightning, or if you want to go inexpensive, AquaBound. I've heard good things about Lendal, but I haven't tried one.<<<<< Except for some Aquabounds almost any paddle I have ever used has had some noticeable flutter during an accelerating stroke. I think this is due to what I call the "falling leaf effect". I use both an ultra light Epic Wayfarer and an ultra light Lightning Std. paddle and noticed no difference between them in the amount of flutter I perceived. I was switching back and forth every few minutes looking for what the differences were between them and found very few and those were of little consequence. They are now my two favorite paddles. I have also used an early Werner Kauai for some time and it seems to flutter pretty similarly to the Epic and Lightning as well. The Aquabounds stood out from other paddles to me for their minimal flutter and I liked that a whole lot about them. Unfortunately, even when they still made composite blades they aren't nearly as light as some. I like lightweight and now that there is nearly a pound difference it is way too big a price for me to pay to avoid some flutter. I can also pretty much avoid flutter with any paddle by using it with a "Wing" paddle stroke. Start near the boat and move the blade progressively away from the boat throughout the stroke. This keeps it on single glide path rather than it acting like a falling leaf. What really bug me are extremely narrow blades where the falling leaf effect is so rapid that you don't know where the blade is going to be next. At least with a wider blade there are only a few predictable flutters even when you pull hard straight back. Was the Epic much lighter than the other paddles you tried? It has been my experience that you notice the flutter more on lighter paddles. I suspect this is because they have less mass to change direction so can do it quicker. Of course, this extra quickness in other areas is one of the things I really like about lightweight paddles. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The flutter is most likely caused by the paddler, not the paddle. My Wayfarer doesn't flutter at all, except when on loan.(; Strosaker wrote: > From: <jwd_at_acm.org> > > What do PaddleWise people think of Epic Paddles? Speaking from > > experience, of course. > > JWD, > > I've barrowed a friends Epic Wayfarer a few times and found that it > fluttered terribly in the water. Otherwise, it seemed pretty nice, which was > a real shame, because the fluttering in the water was bad enough that I > would never buy or use one. I recommend Werner or Lightning, or if you want > to go inexpensive, AquaBound. I've heard good things about Lendal, but I > haven't tried one. > > Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (i.e. headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] My wife and I have been using the Epic Active Tour, carbon w/o flutter unless we plant the blade at a shallow angle. For high angle style it is beautiful. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Strosaker" <strosaker_at_cox.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Epic Paddles > From: <jwd_at_acm.org> > > What do PaddleWise people think of Epic Paddles? Speaking from > > experience, of course. > > JWD, > > I've barrowed a friends Epic Wayfarer a few times and found that it > fluttered terribly in the water. Otherwise, it seemed pretty nice, which was > a real shame, because the fluttering in the water was bad enough that I > would never buy or use one. I recommend Werner or Lightning, or if you want > to go inexpensive, AquaBound. I've heard good things about Lendal, but I > haven't tried one. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've tried the new Active Touring model with a 2 piece all carbon shaft. Never before have I been able to accelerate as quickly as when using that paddle. It may be that the Epic paddle is better for my style (high angle). I've paddled most of the other name brands and plan to purchase the Epic soon to replace my current cheap Euro backup paddle. My primary paddle is a Greenland paddle. You cannot go wrong with th Epic. One note: This paddle is for strong paddlers. It really holds the water and could potentially wear someone out quickly. Consider the Relaxed Touring model if you want something awesome yet a bit less aggressive. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have to ditto the comments of Matt Broze. By coincidence, he and I both have narrowed paddle choice down to 2: Epic and Lightning. Experience? I have used one or the other for the past 8 years, and I paddle almost every day. My Lightning (about 20 oz) has held up well despite some scrapes with rocks and oysters in shallow water paddling at times. My first Epic was the same as the Active Touring carbon fiber, in a 2-piece with 60-degree right feather. It became my favorite paddle at once, even after trying all the new paddles as they came out. When I left for a 1 month paddling trip up to the Great Lakes, I discovered that the day before I had been talking to the Coast Guard when I landed, and had inadvertantly left the paddle on the landing float. Rushed back to get it, and it was gone. Left for my Great Lakes trip crushed at the loss and with my trusty Lightning, but upon my return home a month later, I had a call from the Marina that they had found my paddle floating in the harbor. It had been washed under all the pier pilings all the way across the harbor area, but was still in perfect shape. I used that paddle for about 6 years before breaking it during a bad dump in the surf. Again, crushed at the loss, I sent the paddle back for repair (they reattached the blade to the stock) and ordered a new one as well. Kept the old Epic as a spare, and finally sold it to another person who used it and "had to have it" they liked it so much. My new Epic Active Tour is one piece, 218cm length, and weighs 19 oz. I have a slight preference for the old original Epic paddle because it had a little rougher stock material (new one is very slick) and more pronounced indexing in the stock. But I quickly adjusted to the new paddle. Never have had any flutter with either Epic, but have had the comment from some paddlers I have loaned it to. I am a fairly aggressive paddler, average speed 5 mph with a fairly verticle stroke, but no matter how I paddle with the Epic, no flutter. I sometimes get a fluter when I return to the Lightning, but that too goes away after a little use. I particularly like the blade shape of the Epic: enters and exits quickly and quietly with no splash, and I call the Epic blade my "velcrow blade" because it feels like it sticks firm in the water when planted for a very efficient and fast acceleration stroke. When my Epic was broken and in for repairs, I found that I lost about half my enjoyment in paddling while using the Epic because I didn't have the acceleration to catch waves to surf (caught only about half the waves I would normally catch). Was really delighted to get the new one and the repaired old one back. Would say both Lightning and Epic paddles are worth every cent. If you had told me I was going to spend $800 on 2 paddles before owning these two, I would have told you you were crazy....but now I can't paddle without my Epic! By the way, I feel the Epic has been more resistant to rocks/oysters than the Lightning. I am amazed at its strength and ability to resist breaks or chips. The only problem I had with the 2-piece Epic was that the steel button rusted through (Corpus Christi is tops on the rust scale) but the manufacturer always promptly send replacements. Also, the rubber o-ring between the two pieces rotted out periodically in the Corpus Christi sun...but that too the manufacturer promptly replaced. Epic is really an the most indistructable paddle for the weight. I have lost count of the number of paddlers who have ordered their own Epic after trying mine. Hope all this helps. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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