Mike wrote: <Certainly, I refer to John Winters' published data on paddles in "The Shape Of The Canoe" - in particular the results of lab tests that show the increase in efficiency with the reduction of aspect ratio. > I had a look at the articles in question, and all he presented there was a quick summary of his results. I wonder if John tried different angles of attack, as well as different aspect ratios? The tilted blade makes all the difference to a high aspect ratio blade. Using it untilted, I agree that the Greenland stick is pretty near useless. We really need to get access to a test flume (like a wind tunnel, only with a stream of water, like a really long aquarium) to do a comprehensive test program. Any university types out there with access? I know the University of British Columbia mechanical engineerng department had a couple. And this will only tell us about the blade efficiency. I suspect it is entirely possible to discover a blade that would create the most possible drive force for the work applied to the handle, but it could be impossible to hang on to, unsuitable for non-athletes in a long distance situation, or otherwise useless in real life conditions! Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 12 Jun 2003 at 8:56, Robert MacDonald wrote: > Mike wrote: > <Certainly, I refer to John Winters' published data on > paddles in "The Shape Of The Canoe" - in particular the results of lab > tests that show the increase in efficiency with the reduction of > aspect ratio. > > > I had a look at the articles in question, and all he presented there > was a quick summary of his results. Actually, some of those graphs include his and the work of others. He used to get involved in projects with the national and international canoe racing associations and shared data with other researchers. > We really need to get access to a test flume (like a wind tunnel, only > with a stream of water, like a really long aquarium) to do a > comprehensive test program. Any university types out there with > access? I know the University of British Columbia mechanical > engineerng department had a couple. For the '76 Olympics in Montreal they constructed an all-season indoor training facility for canoe, kayak and rowing. Beautiful and would be perfect for such testing. However, they turned it into a warehouse after the Olympics. Next time you hear politicians spouting crap about the "legacy" of spending billions of dollars in your neighbourhood for the Games, make sure you can string them up on the "legacy" after they trash it and all their promises. You could do some testing off a low dock in a calm bay. Trickier is finding a dock on a river with an appropriate current to simulate the moving kayak. Another possibility is finding a university that has project courses for final year undergrad students and are willing to donate the facility in exchange for you working with the students to analyze the paddle behavior. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike wrote: >> <Certainly, I refer to John Winters' published data on > paddles in "The Shape Of The Canoe" - in particular the results of lab > tests that show the increase in efficiency with the reduction of > aspect ratio. > > > I had a look at the articles in question, and all he presented there > was a quick summary of his results. Actually, some of those graphs include his and the work of others. He used to get involved in projects with the national and international canoe racing associations and shared data with other researchers.< Oops! It seems I had a look only a the "light" version of this work, no graphs, etc. Is the complete text available on the web? <For the '76 Olympics in Montreal they constructed an all-season indoor training facility for canoe, kayak and rowing. Beautiful and would be perfect for such testing. However, they turned it into a warehouse after the Olympics. Next time you hear politicians spouting crap about the "legacy" of spending billions of dollars in your neighbourhood for the Games, make sure you can string them up on the "legacy" after they trash it and all their promises. > Yes, the local flap over the 2010 winter Olympics. I know we won't see a cent of the money up here in northern BC, we just get to pay for it by cutting down the trees and sending them away. <You could do some testing off a low dock in a calm bay. Trickier is finding a dock on a river with an appropriate current to simulate the moving kayak. > Good idea! It cuts the instrumentation cost as well, as two blades could be mounted on a balance beam and compared directly to each other. <Another possibility is finding a university that has project courses for final year undergrad students and are willing to donate the facility in exchange for you working with the students to analyze the paddle behavior.> That is how I knew UBC had 2, I used one there in my own 4th year project. But that was long ago, and I don't know any of the faculty there now. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 13 Jun 2003 at 9:06, Robert MacDonald wrote: > Oops! It seems I had a look only a the "light" version of this work, > no graphs, etc. Is the complete text available on the web? Not anymore. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:34 PDT