> I'm planing a trip up there and I'm struggling with the decision of > whether > to take a gun as protection against a possible polar bear attack. A few > locals have said to take one but I know of two paddling groups that did > not > see any bears between Inukjuak and Kuujjuarapik. Seems likelihood of even > seeing one is pretty low. Mike, need more info... How familiar are you with guns? Are you highly experienced with them, or just slightly experienced? What about the people you will be traveling with - how much firearms experience do they have? Will everyone have a gun, or just "a" gun for the group? What kind of gun - handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc. I imagine that it will take a hell of a gun to stop a polar bear. Don't shoot one with a gun that will just make it angrier - be sure you'll drop the bear quickly. All those things need to be considered, because depending on the answers, the gun could be a piece of safety equipment, or a hazard and liability. For example, if you are with a group of ex Marine Force Recon types, you may want to take a gun that can easily stop a bear (although those types would probably do just as well and prefer fighting the bear hand-to-hand :-)). But, if you are with folks who have never handled guns, leave them at home for your own safety. Couple other comments. There is no substitute for local knowledge. The locals who live there said take a gun.... OTOH, paddling groups who were in and out quickly reported no bear sightings. Who has the better understanding of the environment and the probability of a bear situation? My money is on the locals, and they think you need to take a gun. With that said, if you aren't comfortable taking a gun, consider changing your trip to something else. Can you take an experienced local with you, who has encountered polar bears, learned to spot them, handle them, avoid them, killed them and so forth? That may be better protection than a gun. Now a comment about the likelihood of seeing a bear. The likelihood of my getting in a car accident is pretty low too, but I buckle up every time I get behind the wheel. Accidents and bears don't have to be "common" - they just have to happen once. If you are in bear country, expect to encounter a bear and be prepared (and prepared doesn't mean shoot it the minute you see it - that's an absolute last resort). With that said, I'm not saying "take a gun", nor am I saying "don't take a gun". I'm saying that it's a highly debatable topic, with lots of issues to consider, and it's my feeling that with the info you gave us in your original question, it's too hard a question to answer. But remember... if the locals wouldn't take your trip without taking a gun, that has to weigh heavily in your decision. Again, you can't beat local knowledge. There are limits to that, though. So, can you elaborate some more, please, particularly on the gun "experience" topic? Rick BTW - nice trip! I'll be jealous if you take it! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:44 AM 10/30/2003 -0500, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: >Mike, need more info... How familiar are you with guns? Are you highly >experienced with them, or just slightly experienced? What about the >people you will be traveling with - how much firearms experience do they >have? I grew up with guns on the farm and did a lot of small game hunting but have only went deer hunting a few times. So in general, I'm very experienced with shotguns and small caliber rifles but I don't know very much about bring down a polar bear. If I take a gun it would most likely be a 12 ga or 16 ga pump shotgun with buckshot and slugs. I carried a shotgun on a Greenland paddle trip once but never saw any bears. I have one other person interested in the trip but mostly likely would be a solo trip which I know is a lot more dangerous in terms of avoiding bears but I have a long habit of traveling solo. >... There is no substitute for local knowledge. The >locals who live there said take a gun.... Who has the better >understanding of the environment and the probability of a bear >situation? My money is on the locals .... I've only talked to a few people up there and maybe for them it's just natural to carry a gun but I really hate packing a gun in a kayak or even on deck. I've paddled up and down SE Alaska and only had one encounter with bears (brown) and that was in Glacier Bay where guns aren't allowed anyway. I would like to get a better idea of how many bears there are along the coast I will be paddling. My impression is that there are very few on the E coast Hudson Bay. The other concern is that polar bears seem to have nastier reputations than grizzlies. >Can you take an experienced local with you, who has encountered polar >bears, learned to spot them, handle them, avoid them, killed them and so >forth? That may be better protection than a gun. This is a good idea but again I'm inclined to go solo and figure things out on my own. Ideally I would first like to learn from the locals or other experts how to avoid polar bears rather than carry a gun. >... The likelihood of >my getting in a car accident is pretty low too, but I buckle up every >time I get behind the wheel. Accidents and bears don't have to be >"common" - they just have to happen once. If you are in bear country, >expect to encounter a bear and be prepared (and prepared doesn't mean >shoot it the minute you see it - that's an absolute last resort). I see your point but I still think an encounter is a lot less likely than having an auto accident since there are not many bears up there. And i will have some knowledge of how to avoid them... therefore I don't need a gun. The hard question to answer is how many polar bears are there along the coast in summer. I believe most follow the melting ice north for the summer. Thanks for your comments. -mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike Dziobak wrote: > The other concern is > that polar bears seem to have nastier reputations than grizzlies. I think it was on this list a few months ago that someone posted a quote from a bear expert that went somehting like: "You can negotiate with a grizzly, but to a polar bear if it moves it's food." GaryJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> much about bring down a polar bear. If I take a gun it would most likely be > a 12 ga or 16 ga pump shotgun with buckshot and slugs An Outdoor Travel Specialist on Spitsbergen, Andreas Umbreit, wrotes a handbook. It 4s now outt ion th 5th edition. There4s a special chapter about the topic weapons against Ice bears. I can4t write down the whole cchapter, too much to translate. The basic Information are: the official recommend a MINIMUM caliber of .308. Umbreit writes, better bigger than .308 or a shotgun with slugs, caliber 12/70 or 12/76 (Magnum), but the shotgun is only enough for short range use Make sure you got enough shots, and take a gun handy nough to handle it inside a tent and fast enough to reload. Winchester might be a good idea. Umbreit had several encounters with polar bears, but till now (I got the 4th edition, few years old) he never had to shot directy on the ice bear. To secure the camp he uses alarm wires connected with training granates. Take Maroon munition also. It4s not the question how much bears are in your area. If its only one, hungry or angry is enough to take you away. On Spitsbergen they say, "only people without weapons get killed by polar bears, mostly". One incident, a man was aacked and he only got a handgun, Magnum or something else, he shot and the polar bear overrun him. Both died. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 30 Oct 2003 at 10:44, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: > Can you take an experienced local with you, who has encountered polar > bears, learned to spot them, handle them, avoid them, killed them and > so forth? That may be better protection than a gun. That is very good advice. A paddling guide who spent a lot of time in the Arctic told me that for one trip, they contracted a local to accompany them on kayak trip and "ride shotgun". When they all arrived, the local was not there. They found him and he said he'd changed his mind! They went without him and only saw one bear without incident. I don't remember where they were, however. > If you are in bear > country, expect to encounter a bear and be prepared (and prepared > doesn't mean shoot it the minute you see it - that's an absolute last > resort). This is true for black and grizzly, but in polar bear country, you have to be a little more aggressive. Don't shoot at first sight, but remember that, unlike southern bears, the polar bear is not afraid of humans and is a carnivore. They don't see you as a threat - they see you as a meal. Also remember that the polar ice cap is shrinking (global warming) and a report in the news yesterday emphasized the fact that the feeding period for polar bears is getting shorter. As such, they are under a lot of pressure and are likely to be more hungry and aggressive. In the long run, they may become extinct. Nonetheless, there are many stories of unarmed explorers and adventurers seeing polar bears, some very close, who have had no trouble. So don't be trigger happy. > With that said, I'm not saying "take a gun", nor am I saying "don't > take a gun". I'm saying that it's a highly debatable topic, The fact that the Canadian outfitting company I mentioned would hire a hunter to accompany them means a lot - this company is well known for a minimal-impact and environmentally sensitive approach to outdoor adventure. BTW - there are no grizzlies in that area and I don't think you'll find many black bears either - don't quote me on the latter, however. Mike PS - I don't know if you've ever taken a gun into Canada before - make sure you do all the paper work well in advance of your trip. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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