Hi Paddlers, I am keen to get some ideas for upgrading an old fashion rudder blade on a Klepper Aerius 2 double. The style I have (1970's) has an trailing alum. horizontal blade with little "bite", particularly in following seas and /or whilst sailing. My uses are loaded sea touring and sailing with Klepper jib and occasionally a S4 mainsail (without gear). One thought is to upgrade the blade to a Balogh style "balanced blade" design as indicated in Ralph Diaz's Folding Kayaker book. If this approach what aluminium should I (thickness, hardness) use to avoid bending or too stiff = cracking. Another is buy a Feathercraft K2 rudder (about $A300 - $400 here) or the new Klepper rudder system - like a Feathercraft (about $A200 - $300 here).Significant investments. Finances lean towards having a go myself making a new blade using the existing rudder attachment fitting. Any experiences with these options or suggestions? How does a wider profile blade Balogh style perform vs a narrower and deeper Feathercraft K 2 rudder blade profile. Any other better rudder shapes going round? Does anyone used stainless for rudder blades, if not why not? Many thanks in advance Leigh Brennan-Smith Melbourne, Australia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> My uses are loaded sea touring and sailing with Klepper jib and occasionally > a > S4 mainsail (without gear). > > One thought is to upgrade the blade to a Balogh style "balanced blade" design > as indicated in Ralph Diaz's Folding Kayaker book. I don't remember what he writes about Balogh balanced rudder (Balogh makes rudders for canoes, I think, not for kayaks), but one of the options could be a balanced rudder from Mark Longhaul. He isn't cheap, though. > If this approach what aluminium should I (thickness, hardness) use to avoid > bending or too stiff = cracking. 1/8" or 3/16", if possible - anodized, but not too important. 3/16" will provide more thickness to make a foil cross-section, if you want to. Both of them will bend very little under normal conditions of use. I don't believe that aluminum brands of different serial numbers differ enough in hardness to make this choice important for such application, - but may be they differ more in corrosion resistance. It will sustain years and years of use anyway. Tom Yost probably knows about aluminum a bit more. > > Another is buy a Feathercraft K2 rudder (about $A300 - $400 here) It costs CDN 250 (equlas $A 300, I think) here where they make it. It is foil-shaped, long and vertical, foil calcualted in Australia :-), but it is barely enough for sail area more than 30 sq.ft (3.3 sq.meters). In its current version of rudder head it is far from being balanced. or the new > Klepper rudder system - like a Feathercraft (about $A200 - $300 > here). I don't know what do they in Germany have now, but Longhaul rudder for MK2 could be a good option. Ask him about blade size and compare. > How does a wider profile blade Balogh style perform vs a narrower and deeper > Feathercraft K 2 rudder blade profile. Not too good. More drag, less abilities to point into the wind. It has to be narrow, vertical and foil-shaped. K2 blade in fact isn't bad, only a little bit small for sailing. Balogh has modified a K2 rudder for sailing Feathercraft Kahuna with 32 sq.ft aft rig, btw. In fact he made a longer and more balanced blade out of their foil blade material. I'm using wide 1/8" plain blade (not foil) on my Kahuna with an aft 32 sq.ft sail rig (mast is further aft than in Balogh version). Many people are using such 1/8" sheet aluminum for sailing, btw, on their Folbot kayaks. It's large, but wide. You may try and find local source of Feathercraft foil, since it is of australian origin :-) > > stainless for rudder blades, if not why not? May be because of price and weight. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/21/2004 8:00:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, windshift_at_iprimus.com.au writes: > I am keen to get some ideas for upgrading an old fashion rudder blade on a > Klepper Aerius 2 double. > > The style I have (1970's) has an trailing alum. horizontal blade with little > "bite", particularly in following seas and /or whilst sailing. > > My uses are loaded sea touring and sailing with Klepper jib and occasionally > a S4 mainsail (without gear). I sail my schooner rigged Klepper A-2 with Balogh Batwing sails (24 sq. ft. foresail and 32 sq. ft. sail mounted midship). I use the Balogh designed balanced rudder sold by Longhaul. Works fine. You might also try reversing the blade on the old Klepper rudder as Ralph Diaz has described in his book and newsletter. Drill out the rivet on which the blade swivels, turn the blade 180 degrees and remount. The result is a higher aspect and slightly balanced rudder. Be sure to add a tensioning line to the blade to keep it down and forward. My tensioning line consists of about a 2 foot length of 1/4 inch bungie and the rest is a dacron line. On my Feathercraft K-1 I use an aft mounted 32 sq. ft. Balogh Batwing sail. I tried the Feathercraft K-2 rudder but found it inadequate in size (blade area). I then modified the larger Folbot rudder and attached it to the K-1. Works well. I think that an aft mounted sail requires a larger rudder. The mast and leeboard are close to the rudder resulting in sort of a short lever arm. The K-2 rudder might have worked o.k. if the mast and leeboard were mounted in front of the cockpit. CLC used K-2 rudders on its single kayaks but the sails were all mounted front of the cockpit. I have never tried the Feathercraft K-2 rudder on the Klepper A-2 but I have heard of someone who did it. I think they liked the way the Feathercraft rudder flips back up onto the deck. I don't recall if they sailed the Klepper with that rudder. Your simplest, cheapest solution is to reverse the Klepper blade. If that is not adequate for your needs then you might try to adapt a Folbot rudder. They are not as expensive as the Feathercraft rudder and seem to be adequate for sailing their Greenland II's. The Greenland II's are roughly comparable in size to the Klepper A-2. Tony Niilus > > One thought is to upgrade the blade to a Balogh style "balanced blade" design > as indicated in Ralph Diaz's Folding Kayaker book. > > If this approach what aluminium should I (thickness, hardness) use to avoid > bending or too stiff = cracking. > > Another is buy a Feathercraft K2 rudder (about $A300 - $400 here) or the new > Klepper rudder system - like a Feathercraft (about $A200 - $300 > here).Significant investments. > > Finances lean towards having a go myself making a new blade using the > existing > rudder attachment fitting. > > Any experiences with these options or suggestions? > > How does a wider profile blade Balogh style perform vs a narrower and deeper > Feathercraft K 2 rudder blade profile. > > Any other better rudder shapes going round? > > Does anyone used stainless for rudder blades, if not why not? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> My uses are loaded sea touring and sailing with Klepper jib and occasionally > a > S4 mainsail (without gear). > > One thought is to upgrade the blade to a Balogh style "balanced blade" design > as indicated in Ralph Diaz's Folding Kayaker book. /skip/ > How does a wider profile blade Balogh style perform vs a narrower and deeper > Feathercraft K 2 rudder blade profile. I have already deleted recent post by Tony Niilus, then some second thoughts have surfaced :-); since I don't have a Klepper, but do have a Folbot and Feathercraft rudders :-), here are some thoughts. Ordering a Folbot rudder for $135 and shipping it to Australia won't be too cheap. May be, to order blade only. Folbot blade is an aluminum sheet 1/8" thick (looks like anodized, but this isn't a big deal), and its shape is doesn't look good from the sailing point of view - wide and not balanced. You might have to re-drill and rotate it to make it balanced (Tony did that http://www.geocities.com/niilus/ ); though, such blade can be cut in any aluminum shop or at home for very liitle cost, and could be made not that wide, and balanced too. On the http://www.folbot.com photo shows Folbot old blade, no longer in stock. New one is larger, and can be seen at Tony's website along with Feathercraft rudders, so it's easy to compare. Wetted area of F-craft K2 blade is about 0.04-0.05 sq.m, which is a minimum (1.5%) for 3 sq.m. sail installed fore of the hull Center of Lateral Resistance (I think, 1.5% blade area is a formula for a sheet aluminum, not foiled blade). Foiled F-craft blade provides some additional lift, but it is a thin foil (3/16" or 4 mm), so this effect can't be significant. I don't remember total area of S4 rig - must be more than 3 sq.m. Wetted area of the new Folbot rudder is about 0.8 sq.m, adequate for a larger sail, but I think it can be made with a little bit smaller area (due to decreased width). Mark Longhaul sells his balanced blade separately (USD 100?). I didn't know it was calculated by Mark Balogh; No doubt, he calculated it well for Klepper, but again, blade with higher length/width ratio should perform better under sails - may be narrow aluminum plate wasn't feasible with such large area - it would bend more easily. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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