Subject: Skillful bracing Ken Rasmussen kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net www.kayakfit.com I found myself in a dispute recently with a woman who insists that the best whitewater paddler she ever knew could not roll. She said he could brace so effectively that he never capsized. I told her that I was very skeptical because I think that rolling is much easier to learn than deep bracing, and that people who can brace effectively from a knockdown, or near knockdown, can roll well. I said that I prefer to teach rolling very early in the teaching process because I think it is more effective to teach bracing second. One of my reasons is that a student who misses a brace can roll back up and try again. A student who can't roll has to wet exit and recover, and loses a lot of practice time in the process. I see no harm to teaching bracing first, but the braces I see are all either shallow braces, or result in capsize. In fact, when I'm teaching rescues, and I can't get a volunteer victim, I switch gears, and have bracing practice. Before I know it I've got volunteers needing rescuing! I suppose there might be occasional instances in which someone has learned to brace from a knockdown without knowing rolling, but these must be rare. What are your observations? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Same as yours about rolling and TRUE bracing, but I have seen people who seem to fit the description she makes. I don't think it's bracing though. I have seen paddlers who either can't roll, or can't roll worth beans who rarely capsize when surfing, even over a wide range of conditions and in various types of boats. From my observation they are not bracing (hip snap - head dink, etc), they just have excellent timing and balance and an excellent feel for water moving against their boat and paddle blade. I can't prove any of that though. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ... Subject: Skillful bracing Ken Rasmussen kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net www.kayakfit.com I found myself in a dispute recently with a woman who insists that the best whitewater paddler she ever knew could not roll. She said he could brace so effectively that he never capsized. I told her that I was very skeptical because I think that rolling is much easier to learn than deep bracing, and that people who can brace effectively from a knockdown, or near knockdown, can roll well........ What are your observations? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rolling is nothing more then a glorified brace. If a paddler has a solid brace then there is no reason why they should not be rolling. If the paddler cannot roll then I suspect their bracing is rather poor as well. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
K. Rasmussen wrote: >Subject: Skillful bracing >Ken Rasmussen >kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net >www.kayakfit.com > > I found myself in a dispute recently with a woman who insists that the >best whitewater paddler she ever knew could not roll. I suppose there might be occasional instances in whichsomeone has learned to brace from a knockdown without knowing rolling, but these must be rare. What are your observations? > > I paddle with a handful of very, very skilled hardcore WW guys and gals every Wednesday. They paddle maneuver, brace, scull, layback and snap their way back to a stable position. They all can roll well but rarely end up that far over. They essentially dont roll. It could easily give the illusion of not having a roll. As far as teaching bracing or rolling first I cant say. It would almost depend on the student. Some students do better rolling first and others would be better off being taught a good low brace and then a roll. In my club an OK low brace is a very rare skill indeed. Setting up a slalom course for our last safety clinic was a great success in teaching people boat handling which would appear to be a good step in teaching the importance of bracing. I am digressing a little bit but getting the point across that bracing is important seems elusive in my circle of paddling partners. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:12 PM 7/21/2004 -0700, K. Rasmussen wrote: >Subject: Skillful bracing >Ken Rasmussen >kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net >www.kayakfit.com > > I found myself in a dispute recently with a woman who insists that the >best whitewater paddler she ever knew could not roll. She said he could brace >so effectively that he never capsized. I told her that I was very skeptical >because I think that rolling is much easier to learn than deep bracing, and >that people who can brace effectively from a knockdown, or near knockdown, can >roll well. I would be skeptical about a claim that he could not roll, but not if she said that he never rolls. At a skills symposium a few years ago someone asked Nigel Dennis how often he rolls and he said, "almost never" because his bracing skills are such that he rarely completely capsizes. >I said that I prefer to teach rolling very early in the teaching >process because I think it is more effective to teach bracing second. I think that it helps to teach at least some amount of bracing as it can help develop a good hip snap. > I see no harm to teaching bracing first, but >the braces I see are all either shallow braces, or result in capsize. I see that as well. A lot of people take awhile to learn how to brace effectively because they don't commit to a capsize. An exercise that I use is have them set up with their paddle in a high brace position and tell them hold their offside hand close to deck on the opposite side form where they're going to brace. Then raise the water side paddle blade up a foot or two off the water and hold there as they capsize, when the blade hits the water, brace back up. Have them keep raising the blade higher and higher until their able to capsize and brace back up with the paddle starting at a near vertical position. If they hold the paddle shaft near the offside deck and their bracing hand near their forehead until they hit the water I actually find bracing this way easier than trying to do a quick slap brace. The most common mistake I see people make is letting the offside hand come up and across. When that happens they end up spearing the water rather than bracing with the paddle nearly horizontal when it hits the water. Another exercise is to try to capsize by putting your head in the water first, and as you go over, bring the bracing side hand in front of your face so that your head hits the water before the paddle does. When your head hits the water brace back up. Once they've done that a few times have them hesitate after they've hit the water before bracing. Another trick that helps is to try capsizing and presenting your back to the water so that you land on your back when you hit the water. That stops the capsizing momentum long enough to make a brace easier. Doing this, and then hesitating before bracing up really helps getting the timing of the hipsnap. John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] BUT !!!! On the flipside of that argument is! If you a better technique then you don't have to roll. It is when you fail and capsize that you need to roll. That is why I always taught my students to roll their kayaks dead last! This is so they can be better at bracing and strokes than learning that it is easier to fail and try again. But, this is just MHO, such as it is, and there are lots of other instructors out there that do the same thing as me. Kirby -----Original Message----- Subject: Skillful bracing Ken Rasmussen I found myself in a dispute recently with a woman who insists that the best whitewater paddler she ever knew could not roll. She said he could brace so effectively that he never capsized. I told her that I was very skeptical because I think that rolling is much easier to learn than deep bracing, and that people who can brace effectively from a knockdown, or near knockdown, can roll well. I said that I prefer to teach rolling very early in the teaching process because I think it is more effective to teach bracing second. One of my reasons is that a student who misses a brace can roll back up and try again. A student who can't roll has to wet exit and recover, and loses a lot of practice time in the process. I see no harm to teaching bracing first, but the braces I see are all either shallow braces, or result in capsize. In fact, when I'm teaching rescues, and I can't get a volunteer victim, I switch gears, and have bracing practice. Before I know it I've got volunteers needing rescuing! I suppose there might be occasional instances in which someone has learned to brace from a knockdown without knowing rolling, but these must be rare. What are your observations? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ken Rasmussen said: I found myself in a dispute recently with a woman who insists that the best whitewater paddler she ever knew could not roll. I've been a whitewater paddler and was a slalom racer much of my life. I rarely roll, even in really big water. Same is true of many of the good whitewater paddlers I know. But it is really hard to imagine anyone getting that good without having worked his or her way up the skills ladder without rolling or knowing how to roll. Everyone else has already said what I would say about progressions, so I'll just add this: Could we have the name of this non-rolling superstar? That might put a quick end to the mystery. I did once have a student at Madawaska Kanu Centre who was a good paddler, a good raft guide, who knew whitewater well. He never rolled because he had this bizarre ability, and inclination, to be completely upside down in his kayak and still be able to get his head high enough to breathe. He would then proceed to "paddle swim" his way over to shore or to a rock where he would grab on and hip snap up. En route he looked like a demented turtle. But no one would call him a good paddler because it was so obvious that someday he was going to find a river where that would not work. The Madawaska River in the school area is quite narrow. Interesting discussion. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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