I was just down at the Victoria Canoe and Kayak Center (no affiliation) to look at their wooden paddles yesterday for a friend who is going to build a Pygmy this winter and would like to purchase a wooden paddle ahead of time. I was impressed with the workmanship, though the builder of the paddles might want to invest in some spray equipment, rather than brushing on the finish. Paddles can been seen at (no affiliation): http://www.whiteriverranch.com/kalai/ My work mate and I got talking about wooden boats, and I got the usual question about why I hadn't built a wooden boat yet. It's probably because I can't handle imperfection in my woodworking, and I know my first boat probably will not come out absolutely perfect. However, it would sure fit the family budget, and probably provide enjoyment and a kayak specifically suited to every consideration I care to come up with (hatch size and placement, volume, bulkhead arrangement, low rear deck for layback manoeuvres, etc.). And if I go wooden paddle again, it will be a Greenland stick. I'm still not convinced a plywood or cedar strip kayak with epoxy/glass on both sides would not be difficult to repair if a direct and heavy hit were taken on the hull. I worry about delaminating and the broken cell structure of the inner wood and/or fracturing apart of the underlying plywood in the case of a plywood hull with heavy impact damage. I often come down very hard on reefs in a fully loaded boat, that's 200lbs (me), 100lbs (boat), 200lbs + (gear) for a total of 500lbs, or straight into a surge-channel obstruction at 6 to 7 knots. Plastic is probably the answer, but my worst incidents are on extended multi-day trips, and I'm not sure how I'd like plastic for longer trips (great for day trips to rock gardens like the Tsunami/ hardcore BCU guys n' gals with instant open coast, but I live a bit too far for that for daily activity to make it worth while). Intimate rock garden paddling in 2 to 3 meter swell/surfing boomers/etc. in the context of multi-day trips on remote coast, solo, with a fully loaded, straight tracking sea kayak isn't a niche many aspire to, nor is seeking out specifically, gale-force wind-driven waves in the same context. If money were no object, I'd probably go for a very heavily laid-up Nordkapp Jubilee in Kevlar, etc., as I believe VCP still make the best rough open-water kayaks in the world. I'd maintain that position/view/opinion, even if I changed to a different kayak builder/designer. I can keep repairing fibreglass/epoxy, but at what point my friends whom I paddle with occasionally would not want me along due to the weight of my unladen boat, I do not know. I never carry my boat when on my own; I simply drag it over whatever landing surface there is (except marine life), all the way to my tent site. I can still "clean-and-jerk" my Nordkapp onto a sedan. However, these activities have recently been a source of instant arrhythmias and shoulder pain, and maybe my days with a heavy boat are numbered (of course, I could always empty some of the gear out first before dragging, but dang, I never used to need to in my younger days!). It seems my Nordkapp has well matured over the 25 years or so, in one sense; I'm still trying to catch up. We're both defiantly patched up. I know old salts like Dan Lewis in Tofino who have matured to greater aspirations beyond childish playing in surge channels and such, rather moving toward coaching, guiding, and smelling the roses on long trips. Not sure if I can change my ways. I have visions of a frail 80-year old man, winching his 60-year old Nordkapp up the beach to his truck, where a pneumatic lift alights it to the roof racks. As he drives away from the ocean, he says to himself, "Yep, gotta replace that ol' heavy Nordkapp one day." Doug Lloyd (hoping folks know me well enough to realize these things are a heart-felt passion, not ego-driven ramblings) Victoria BC Kirk Olsen said (snip): "> Doug, > > You really need to build yourself a boat. I know you have the > woodworking skills to do it. I think you would > be soooo much happier in a new boat, one that you built to your specs. > Your nordkapp is just crying out to be let die a peaceful death. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <dalloyd_at_telus.net> > My work mate and I got talking about wooden boats, and I got the usual > question about why I hadn't built a wooden boat yet. It's probably because I > can't handle imperfection in my woodworking, and I know my first boat > probably will not come out absolutely perfect. Valley boats (I have owned two and still have my Pintail) aren't made perfectly either by any stretch. They are wonderful designs but eventually weigh a ton. Gelcoat sucks up water and weighs more every year. I will probably sell my beloved Pintail next year because I really hate cartopping it alone. Make your own kit. You will absolutely love it and so will everyone who sees it. > I'm still not convinced a plywood or cedar strip kayak with epoxy/glass on > both sides would not be difficult to repair if a direct and heavy hit were > taken on the hull. I worry about delaminating and the broken cell structure > of the inner wood and/or fracturing apart of the underlying plywood in the > case of a plywood hull with heavy impact damage. Take a peek at this link of my boat that has a bit of bow damage. http://community.webshots.com/album/149716235PrahZV/6 OK more than a bit. If all goes well when I receive what I need to fix it in the mail Wed Ronnie and I will have it floating by Sat. If I can fix that level of damage than anything can be fixed. The Australians make, break, and fix ply boats all the time and dont even blink. The beauty of a kit is you can stray from the standard glass layup any way you want. Add military strength s glass instead of standard e glass. Throw in some Kevlar or some of the cheaper Kevlar knockoffs Add carbon skid plates to the bottom. The variables are endless. You could even put in a cup holder for that minivan effect......... Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug and All, I've seen terrible imperfections in many popular manufactured kayaks. As a small example, the Wilderness Systems Arctic Hawk and Kajak Sport Millennium that I once owned both had a hooked keel at the bow. I've seen a Current Designs Andromeda that did too. I've seen a lot of manufactured kayaks with unfair lines and unevenness. Not to mention that most designs weathercock terribly without a skeg or rudder. I figured why should I buy more screwed up kayaks, when I could design and build my own screwed up kayak, and I actually came out with one that's not too shabby. Duane Strosaker Southern California www.rollordrown.com Doug Lloyd <dalloyd_at_telus.net> wrote: <Snip> My work mate and I got talking about wooden boats, and I got the usual question about why I hadn't built a wooden boat yet. It's probably because I can't handle imperfection in my woodworking, and I know my first boat probably will not come out absolutely perfect.<snip> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 6 Aug 2004 at 22:41, Doug Lloyd wrote: > My work mate and I got talking about wooden boats, and I got the usual > question about why I hadn't built a wooden boat yet. It's probably > because I can't handle imperfection in my woodworking, and I know my > first boat probably will not come out absolutely perfect. Grit your teeth and go at it. You've never seen _my_ wooddorking [sic] and lots of folks think my homemade stuff is great. All I see are flaws. > I'm still not convinced a plywood or cedar strip kayak with > epoxy/glass on both sides would not be difficult to repair if a direct > and heavy hit were taken on the hull. I worry about delaminating and > the broken cell structure of the inner wood and/or fracturing apart of > the underlying plywood in the case of a plywood hull with heavy impact > damage. Since weight is not an issue with you, you've got little to fear. Go with a top quality marine ply (okoume, not door skins) and use top end marine epoxy. As far as glass goes - why bother? Go with Kevlar. You may as well spend some more bucks and get a tougher kayak. You can put on layers of Kevlar and laugh at the rocks. Paint over the outside to hide the Kevlar colour and protect from UV. A S&G with Kevlar that weighs 60-70 lb will be a battleship compared to a production boat and you'll save 30-40 lb over what you've got now! As far as designs go, you can consider test paddling as many existing designs as you can find. You could also try using a program like Hulls to draft up a design that is similar to what you've paddled and like* and then generate the plywood template. Rough it out in ply and try it out by wrapping the result in industrial plastic wrap (or the blue heat shrink that they protect boats with) and see how it handles. If the change is minor, change it and then finish. If not, toss the ply (or sell it to another who will finish it) and then start over. Only when you've got pretty much what you want do you then go on to finish it. Another approach is to build skin on frame designs and experiment with the shape. When you find the "perfect" shape, draft it into plywood and build that. Here you could make the frame out of cheap wood and not worry about longevity. The plastic wrap approach will allow you to do calm water, basic handling tests easily. The frame is easier to modify than S&G and you can cover it with a paintable skin for real serious rough water testing only after you've satisfied yourself with earlier tests. With the right amount of reading, searching the web, test paddling others' kayaks and some experimenting, I don't think it would take you that much to find a decent kayak design. Go for it - it's only money :-) Mike *subject to copying restrictions as discussed recently. Note that some designers do give permission to make single homemade copies of their kayaks. I know of one guy who made a Nordkapp in cedar strip with VCP's blessing. PS - I'm away for a week on Georgian Bay, so I won't be able to respond to this stuff. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This talk of worrying about woodworking skills brings this to mind - one builder I talked to limits his final sanding - he leaves runs and drips. His theory is that he wants a functional boat and if it starts not looking perfect then he won't worry about the details and won't worry about scratching it and adding character on every paddle. I guess that is one approach. K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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