G'day, This question is addressed to senior instructors in the club. I'm particularly concerned not to confuse anyone who is learning to roll so will understand if you want to answer privately rather than on the chat line. Two or three of us started wondering during rolling practise today whether the term "hip flick" was appropriate and whether knee flick or knee lift might better describe what should be emphasised during a roll. This may sound like a trivial question but was stimulated by the observation that one of us was having real difficulty rolling and was not doing much with the knee but was emphasising a hip movement. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Two or three of us started wondering during rolling practise today whether > the term "hip flick" was appropriate and whether knee flick or knee lift > might better describe what should be emphasised during a roll. Most paddlers I know/teach have little awareness of their hips, and could probably only point out a general area if asked where they were! For that reason I get them to concentrate on their knees, which also highlights if they are not locked into the kayak properly, as is often the case, despite their claims. It may also help to focus on the role of the oblique abdominals (We all have them, some are just hidden!) in rotating the kayak. This can be emphasised in pool drills by keeping the head on the hands which are on the pool edge/held by an instructor. Using the obliques the roller should work to rotate the kayak upright. A variation can also be done while laying on the floor with the legs bent. Try to keep your head down as long as possible while rotating the lower body (Opps, I almost said hips) to a sitting position. Isolating separate movements can be useful when analysing fine details in a faulty technique, but it is probably of little value to the beginner, who would be overwhelmed by detail. Cheers JKA -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 26 Sep 2004 at 19:04, PeterO wrote: > Two or three of us started wondering during rolling practise today > whether the term "hip flick" was appropriate and whether knee flick or > knee lift might better describe what should be emphasised during a > roll. This may sound like a trivial question but was stimulated by the > observation that one of us was having real difficulty rolling and was > not doing much with the knee but was emphasising a hip movement. John's comments are good and I can agree with them. This past spring, while demonstrating some rolls in the pool for our club, I was asked what my knees were doing. I sat there for a while trying to come up with a good answer. I finally said that I never really consider what my knees are doing. I tried to explain that I wear my kayak and that it is the total fit that allows me to control the rotation. Mine is an ocean cockpit, so without knee/thigh hooks, I can brace my legs anywhere under the deck from the gunnel to the knee tube. When teaching someone to roll, I reference the knee not so much to indicate what it does so much as to indicate what direction the body is moving. Since I teach sweep rolls more often than brace rolls, I avoid the term "hip flick" entirely and use the term "hip rotation" instead when I need to. I want the paddler to emphasize a smooth continuous rotation of the kayak from the start of the sweep to the end. If I then go on to teach a brace roll, I then refer to an "aggressive rotation." I don't think many of these terms are ideal. I try to describe things without them. BTW - I really hate, and avoid, the term "head dink". It's a totally useless term, neither descriptive nor referencing any common behavior. Maybe Americans dink, but I don't know any Canadians that do (we share a border, but not an entire language). Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly wrote: > I don't think many of these terms are ideal. I try to describe > things without them. BTW - I really hate, and avoid, the term "head > dink". It's a totally useless term, neither descriptive nor > referencing any common behavior. Maybe Americans dink, but I don't > know any Canadians that do (we share a border, but not an entire > language). I thought it was the English and the Americans who were one people divided by a language. Oh, well... As Roger Schumann says, I'm not the head dink, but sometimes I get to be the assistant dink. When you do a brace, does your head stay centered on your shoulders, or does it move towards the working knee? If it moves--it does, doesn't it?--do you encourage your students to do the same? Do you have a name for that movement? Some people call that a head dink. What do Canadians call it? Of course, Derek says you can dislocate your neck dinking, and we all know that whatever Derek says is ..... right? -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 29 Sep 2004 at 9:42, Steve Cramer wrote: > I thought it was the English and the Americans who were one people > divided by a language. Oh, well... We're in the middle - spell like the Brits and sound like the Yanks (with a bit of Scots throw in). > Do you have a name for that movement? Some people call > that a head dink. What do Canadians call it? Don't know. I say "Head comes up last" and "Keep your ear glued to your shoulder". Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO wrote: > Two or three of us started wondering during rolling practise today > whether the term "hip flick" was appropriate and whether knee > flick or knee lift might better describe what should be emphasised > during a roll. This may sound like a trivial question but was > stimulated by the observation that one of us was having real > difficulty rolling and was not doing much with the knee but was > emphasising a hip movement. There is no one best way to describe anything paddling-related. Each learner brings his own learning style - and personality - to a training session, so a good instructor will be able to describe the same thing in a number of different ways, hoping that one of them will 'click' in every student's mind, thereby achieving the goal of the lesson/session. In teaching the roll, some students will understand the term hip flick or hip snap, for others it may be important to stress that one knee should be pulled up toward the chest while the other is relaxed, others will need to be reminded to keep their upper body in the water as long as is possible, and yet others will have enough information if you simply tell them to use their lower body to roll the boat under them. If one way of describing something to a student is not working, it's time to describe it a little bit differently, emphasize another part of the roll, or switch from a C-to-C to a sweep roll - or vice versa. The hip snap/hip flick may be more appropriate for the student who has more flexibility and is learning the C-to-C roll, while the knee lift may be more appropriate for the less flexible student learning the sweep roll - but these are not hard and fast rules. The 'best' way of teaching anything depends so much on how the student in question is put together and capable of moving - and also on the attitude they bring to the lesson/session. Erik S *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:39 PDT