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From: Doug Lloyd <dalloyd_at_telus.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] How do you measure a sea kayaker
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:14:12 -0700
Ian posted (snip):
>1 - What makes a top or "elite" sea kayak paddler?<

What kind of sea kayak paddler? A coastal paddler with excellent surf and
rock garden skills (like the Tsunami Rangers) is a hugely different animal
that a veteran blue water kayaker, say like John Dowd. Often, the skills and
assessment of same, including deep water rescue techniques, can be vastly
different. Ever seen a couple show up for a BCU course in a double Klepper?
I bet they had a fun time, eh?

Good luck with your discussion. Thanks for adding it to Paddlewise.
Full-circle here as always: certification, feathered vs unfeathered,
bulkheads vs bags, and so it goes. We need to discuss inflatable vs rigid
paddlefloats again. Oh sorry, forgot, they don't use those down-under. Have
a good debate Ian; I'll stop being cheeky.

BTW, you guys should really look at the BCU system a little closer. Most of
the best paddlers I know have had some level of exposure to it, though I
think it's foremost attribute is the development of very good coaching
skills and excellent coaches.

>2 - Is it possible to design an overall ranking system so that you know
exactly where you stand?  If not an overall system, how about a series of
benchmarks?<

The best overall ranking system is the ocean itself. Something John Dowd has
always maintained. I don't agree with everything the man pontificates about,
but he does speak volumes of common sense on this issue (the importance of
experience and judgement). I also think the BCU-styled system has many
advantages too in obtaining teachable and obtainable benchmarks with
codified yardsticks of attainment, though somewhat artificial at times. I'd
like to see folks in both camps pay better attention to each other, with a
little more respect.

Doug Lloyd
Victoria BC

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"Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said
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Ludwig Wittgenstein
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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How do you measure a sea kayaker
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:40:22 EDT
In a message dated 9/9/2004 3:24:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
ian.dewey_at_canoe.org.au writes:


> 1 - What makes a top or "elite" sea kayak paddler?
>     Long trips (over a certain distance)
>     Fast trips
>     Trips in the worst conditions (over a specific wind or wave or
> current or temperature or etc.)
>     Number of rolls (both sides)
>     Number and effiency of strokes (across the full range)
>     Number and effiency rescue techniques
>     Ability to play in extreme rock gardens
>     Accuracy of navigation
>     Quality of planning

I would categorize these as personal skills, that can contribute to the 
skills of that person. However, are these paddlers All-For-None and None-For All, 
and we are to just assess that paddler on their personal skills? If so, I would 
ask you to consider adding a component of judgement to understand the present 
and potential conditions and not get into trouble in the first place.

Let's look at some of these skills individually:

Long Trips: That can mean a highly skilled Chris Duff, Paul Caffyn paddler or 
just someone with a pretty good forward stroke. I learn things on all of my 
trips, but it doesn't mean I'm any good because I take them.

Fast Trips: It might mean a traveller with limited vaction time away from 
work; has a pretty good forward stroke;and it may also indicate some endurance; 
still, not a real paddler barometer, to me.

Trips In The Worst Conditions: Means to me the judgement is impaired, unless 
one specifically was courting those situations, trains for them and can handle 
that and more.

Number of Rolls: I know a lot of paddlers who have flatwater rolls in many 
different forms and as soon as the water gets rough they forget all about them 
and swim up to the surface. Still, a demonstrable roll in bouncy water is 
better than following them around waiting for them to capsize to see what they 
would really do.

Number and efficiency of strokes: Of course.

Number and efficiency of rescue techniques: Of course. First Aid, CPR, 
Lifeguard skills, too? Towing, towing, towing. And more towing.

Ability to play in extreme Rock Gardens: Great fun, has a sense of judgement 
and timing, use of skills for ingress and egress, ok, I see a component here 
as being useful. 

Nav and Planning: Of course.

Now, are we a One-For-All and All-For One paddler? I suggest that a paddler 
function as an assett to the leader and the group as a whole. I'm sure many of 
us have seen strong paddlers way far away when it was time to rescue one or 
more paddlers in trouble here and now.

Can the paddler act as a competent leader in advanced conditions? I would 
suggest that an elite award be reserved for all the above and strong leadership 
in advanced conditions.

> 
> 2 - Is it possible to design an overall ranking system so that you know
> exactly where you stand?  If not an overall system, how about a series of
> benchmarks?
> 

I prefer the BCU system. There are those who spend considerable energy 
voicing their disapproval of the BCU/ACA/CRCA/FBI/CIA/CHP, et al. Let's take John 
Dowd, someone whose contributions to sea kayaking are absolutely outstanding, 
yet a noted opponent of the BCU. Is Mr. Dowd not acting as a mentor/coach with 
his books, articles and video's? Didn't Mr Dowd set up his own wilderness kayak 
training institute some years ago? From the peanut gallery, it looks like a 
battle of ego's, not a substantive debate on how high one should hold their 
paddle, or the pro's and cons of skegs. From my students perspective, 
authori-tah, has its dark side.

Kind Regards,

Rob G
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From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How do you measure a sea kayaker
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:10:49 -0700
How does one find ones place in the pecking order? Why would you want to?
Sure competitions can be fun but for those I favor easily measured results
in strictly limited categories rather than a judged competition that
includes a bunch of subjective opinions (that aren't often based on much but
the judge's place in the artificial hierarchy) attempting to include several
areas of weighted endeavor in the final result.

We should definitely not allow anyone who uses a nine foot long paddle to
spread his filth to the uninitiated though ;-)

Matt Broze
www.marinerkayaks.com
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