Matt wrote: Finally a request. This is a paddling forum, lets try to keep the passions of both politics and religion off of it please. Doug wrote: As for religion on paddlewise, I agree, it should be kept to a bare minimum. Over the years I have participated in the Paddlewise discussion I have often stayed out of the religious debates for two reasons. One this is afterall a form about paddling not religion. Two, whereas religion is a matter of personal deep felt belief I prefer face to face in depth discussions as opposed to the internet which limits discussion. In my trip reports I have shared with the Paddlewise gang, I have written about spiritual moments. I shared them because that is how I experience life upon the sea, but not to force my beliefs on others. Many who have commented on my stories have connected with this spiritual aspect because it is a part of their paddling and life also. I have tried hard to keep them religiously generic. In other words I have used terms such as Creator rather than specific Christian language. I have done this respecting those who do not share my theology or beliefs. Simply put my faith journey began from a wilderness experience and it is in the wilderness that I feel closest to my Creator. In other words my days upon the sea are a tapestry of who I am physically, mentally and yes, spiritually. Remove one thread from the tapestry and it all falls apart. Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Eloquently put, Rev. Carter. I suspect many of us are sand-Druids. A piece written while in thrall to nature's call: http://www.kayakplace.com/essay/dkn/dkn25.htm Give me open spaces, and I will thrive. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_aptalaska.net> > In my trip reports I have shared with the Paddlewise gang, I have > written > about spiritual moments. I shared them because that is how I experience > life > upon the sea, but not to force my beliefs on others. Many who have > commented > on my stories have connected with this spiritual aspect because it is a > part > of their paddling and life also. I have tried hard to keep them > religiously > generic. In other words I have used terms such as Creator rather than > specific > Christian language. I have done this respecting those who do not share my > theology or beliefs. > Simply put my faith journey began from a wilderness experience and it is > in the wilderness that I feel closest to my Creator. In other words my days > upon the sea are a tapestry of who I am physically, mentally and yes, > spiritually. Remove one thread from the tapestry and it all falls apart. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 12 Dec 2004 at 22:57, Bob Carter wrote: > I prefer face to face in depth discussions I've always said - religion is like sex: it should be practiced in private and involve consenting adults. I was taught that by my rather devout mother, though she never quite used those words... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I don't like fanaticism either, but if I don't care for the tone or substance of a message, I delete it without finishing reading it; repeat offenders get filtered automatically into the delete folder. Political hand grenades belong elsewhere, but there may be important political issues affecting paddling topics (overregulation, resource management, local/state/national/international control, etc.) that list members may want to hear about, and I would rather see a freer forum in which offenders are properly chastised. As for religious elements, I can't remember any on this list that have ever bothered me. When I think of how religious feeling suffuses the writings of John Muir, who seemed to regard natural phenomena as a direct manifestation of the divine, I would feel deprived if I were denied the opportunity to hear his sincere feelings. Tom ---------------------------------------- The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. ======================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Dec 14, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Joyce, Thomas F. wrote: > As for religious elements, I can't > remember any on this list that have ever bothered me. When I think of > how religious feeling suffuses the writings of John Muir, who seemed to > regard natural phenomena as a direct manifestation of the divine, I > would feel deprived if I were denied the opportunity to hear his > sincere > feelings. I agree. It is entirely appropriate to express one's personal experiences, feelings and even religious ideas in connection with paddling. However the passage quoted below from a message posted to this list is not of that nature. It is religious advice to OTHERS, (also known as preaching). To it I still object: "If you go, take a Bible along to read and maybe someday you will understand that man is not an island unto himself. Believe it or not, humankind needs each other. Way down deep you are reaching out to others whether or not you know it. Others and myself will pray for you whether you like it or not, and be concerned for your life. Amen." Michael in cold Tallahassee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It all boils down to how "free" the free speech is on this list. It is a paddling list, so there are limits. Paddling is more an exercise in physics than philosophy. Nevertheless, we all seem to have our own philosophy regarding it. As much as any other philosophy is allowed on the list, a bible based philosophy is just as valid to be expressed. There is nothing objectively that makes religion based philosophy more unacceptable than any other. For those of us with strong religious beliefs, our religion is the basis of our philosophy. For those of us who are bible believing religion type people, the bible is the foundation of that philosophy. There is a lot of preaching on this list about the ethics of copying designs, about protecting the environment, and all kinds of other things only tangentially (if at all) related to actual paddling. I see no reason to single out religious thoughts for censure. Though I am a bible believing person, I do not see paddling as a spiritual activity any more than mountain biking or running. Even so, if others do, I don't see the harm in them expressing that on the list. It's as valid for expression as all the other philosophies. One thing for certain, any idea put forth in a forum like this should be subject to someone else posting the counter idea. If the point is valid to be expressed, so is the counter point. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- ........ However the passage quoted below from a message posted to this list is not of that nature. It is religious advice to OTHERS, (also known as preaching). To it I still object: .............. Michael in cold Tallahassee *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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