>>>>>"Michael Daly" mikedaly_at_magma.ca wrote: On 2 Feb 2005 at 15:00, kayakwriter_at_netscape.net wrote: > Here in Canada, the private property line ends at "higher high tide." [...] > I have had one or two discussions with > landowners over the years, doing my best to be as polite but firm as > possible. Some are surprized to find they don't own the beach. This seems to vary with area - some folks are more obnoxious than others (and it seems to be directly proportional to ostentatious displays of wealth). I know that in some areas, there are people who complain if paddlers are in the water near their property - seems we destroy their view. <<<<< Yeah, I hate to rely on governmental policies that may be viewed as hogwash by the occupants. When you can see the Dobermans pacing the beach, smell the cannabis crop from the backyard or see the shotgun leaning against the house under the back porch, I generally consider discretion the better part of valor and move on. Evan Dallas Woodinville, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Actually, as far as rants go, this has been quite a civil discussion. I think our midwinter contemplative attitudes are in low, low gear. ; ) My wife and I paddled Dungeness Spit NWR/WA State Park combo on Juan de Fuca last saturday. We hoped there'd be a bit of surf on the beach from a 9 foot westerly swell on the outside. It turned out to be about a 1 foot swell where we were on the strait, so we turned to bird watching on glassy water. On the north shore of the spit we landed and walked up to the lighthouse. We made sure we were on the proper side of the NWR boundary as it is actually a sanctuary and none shall pass that line. A couple of refuge wardens showed up on quads and in a polite tone suggested we were not allowed to land our kayaks there. Instead, we were to use the sheltered south side of the spit as they were having problems with illegal camping on the spit and were in need of tracking boaters. In fact, she said, you must now call ahead to land. When she left I rolled my eyes and thought how pathetic a situation it is when hikers can walked up and down the 5 miles of spit and a boater has to call ahead. Perhaps the Feds standards are a bit whimsical, or perhaps they are reacting to unintended use, I don't know. I suppose the alternative is for them to be really uniform and some colichy bureaucrat in DC will invalidate all the guide books forever by ordering all boaters to call ahead of time to secure a lottery based permit at their division headquarters. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin Warner <gwarner2_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > I can't imagine >what it must be like paddling in Europe where every square inch of soil is >part of some lucky sots personal fiefdom. I suppose you have to sneak >ashore just after dusk and leave just before dawn to avoid the authorities. Hi Gordon, Not sure about all of Europe, but I know from kayak touring experience in Norway (and I believe the rest of Scandanavia) there's a law dating from Viking times, still in effect, that you can land and camp on private land. The rule is you can't be visible from the landowner's house. I'm not sure if there's a time limit - we never did more than overnight. And I'm not sure if there are fires are restricted in such situations - we always used a stove and practised minimum impact/ no trace camping anyway. Britian also has what are called "right to roam" laws, which give ramblers (hikers) the right to pass through private land in some circumstances. These laws are causing some problems for farmers, who feel they may be held liable for accidents experienced by uninvited guests. I'm not sure what, if any, benefits these "right to roam" laws offer kayakers. Here in Canada, the private property line ends at "higher high tide." (There are a few exceptions for oyster farms and other commerical uses.) This isn't much help for camping except at neap tides, but it's handy for lunch stops and leg stretching. I restrict relief to using my in-boat pee bottle in such situations - no point in offending people for no reason. I have had one or two disscussions with landowners over the years, doing my best to be as polite but firm as possible. Some are surprized to find they don't own the beach. Others don't care: there are reports of an owner of an island in the Gulfs using a private security guard thug and a dog to run boaters off the public crown foreshore. Should this ever happen to me, I'll be following up with whatever criminal charges and civil actions may be applicable. We gotta draw a line in the sand - at the higher high tide line! Cheers, Philip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 2 Feb 2005 at 15:00, kayakwriter_at_netscape.net wrote: > Here in Canada, the private property line ends at "higher high tide." [...] > I have had one or two disscussions with > landowners over the years, doing my best to be as polite but firm as > possible. Some are surprized to find they don't own the beach. This seems to vary with area - some folks are more obnoxious than others (and it seems to be directly proportional to ostentatious displays of wealth). I know that in some areas, there are people who complain if paddlers are in the water near their property - seems we destroy their view. On the other hand, there's Newfoundland (I've probably told this one before): When starting out on a trip, I asked the outfitter from whom we rented the kayaks what we should do if we accidently found ourselves on private land instead of Crown. He replied: "Better hide, or they'll invite you in for tea and you'll never get away." Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Here in NJ there are no, repeat no, legal campsites on the entire Atlantic Coast. The best you can do is paddle some miles inland in a few places to a commercial campground. This also extends along the shore of Delaware Bay and River all the way up to Trenton. I'm on the steering committee for the Delaware River Canoe Trail and camping opportunities are the great lack in the Lower section from the Water Gap on down. Nothing at all save for one state park on its shores and perhaps two commercial campgrounds. You concerns about encroachment and subsequent loss of campsites is well-founded here as well. There are some islands in the Delaware where people practice "commando camping", sometimes more overtly. As time progresses, many islands are becoming publicly owned. The immediate result is that they are closed to camping. Usually, it is explained as being a sensitive ecological habitat/area, or contains fragile archaeological sites. The word "Potential" is always omitted. For the most part, there is no evidence that either of the above is the case. Rather, the responsible agency has stewardship over the property, but no personnel not funding to carry it out... So the public is excluded as a precaution... WRT wildlife refuges, one nearby absolutely prohibits and canoes or kayaks -- or any boat, for that matter. On the other hand, another one in Northern NJ welcomes paddlers, even providing parking areas and access points. They also have guides/maps to the area. I guess it depends at least in part on the Superintendent. We also lose accesses because we are not a high-profile sport. Not a few accesses have disappeared because no official was aware that the place was used (legally) as an access. Many parking spots get cut off by new guard rails. Sometimes there is a lack of communication. A few years ago there was a road realignment at a spot used as an access by both paddlers and fishermen. They were aware of us so in the process they put in a macadam pad for us to park in. Five days later the local power company, installing a new high voltage line, plunked a huge pole smack in the middle of it, making it virtually unusable... We're generally a placid bunch, not given to public displays. It's part and parcel, really, of why we paddle. But I do wonder whether in the long run this quiescence is not the best course. Joe Pylka jpylka_at_earthlink.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> When you can see the Dobermans pacing the beach, smell > the cannabis crop from the backyard or see the shotgun leaning against the > house under the back porch, I generally consider discretion the better part > of valor and move on. It should be "Dobermans, cannabis and shotgun" :-).... A normal business practise for such farms (the only difference here in BC is that firearms are less numerous). You see, when farmer is "off for lunch", like went to mainland for shopping or other affairs, the Dobermans are his only protection. He can't install alarm system, 'cause if police or firemen would come to check the ranch in his absence after false alarm signal, it's gonna be a problem. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
evand_at_pensionresourcegroup.com said: > > > When you can see the Dobermans pacing the beach, smell the cannabis > > crop from the backyard or see the shotgun leaning against the house > > under the back porch, I generally consider discretion the better > part > > of valor and move on. Now, let's not malign dobies. I have two who think they are lap dogs. They sleep on the bed and continually fight my wife and I for the pillows. <gr> Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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