For some odd reason my e mail program is only sending my responses directly to the author and skipping Paddlewise. I'm sure I'm at fault. So I've copied my last post to Philip and forwarded it on so everyone will know what Philip was talking about in his last reply. He makes some good points. Landowners could be more trusting and kayakers more sympathetic. The best way to resolve access issues will be with dialogue. Unfortunately some of these landowners breath only the rarefied air of corporate America (Microsoft and Bank of America to name just two) and they have no time for gnats like us or local governments. Actually there is a more urgent and important access issue looming here in the Gulf Islands. I'm making a few calls to get a last minute update and will post details. Gordin Warner Victoria BC Hi Philip, You wrote, Some are surprised to find they don't own the beach. Others don't care: there are reports of an owner of an island in the Gulfs using a private security guard thug and a dog to run boaters off the public crown foreshore. Your referring to James Island. I believe the security guard/care taker has learnt his lesson. As I understand it the last incident involved his attempt to run off a kayaker who just happened to be a Provincial Crown Prosecutor. I've been told the lawyer collected accounts of the mans actions, opened a file, and sent a letter explaining the law and a polite request to desist or face the consequences. Last week I circumnavigated James Island with a group of friends we stopped along it's north shore for lunch and where observed by the guard as he made his rounds in his truck. He just kept on driving and didn't bother us. We stayed below the high water line. As an aside it may be that the owner of James Island has safety in mine. James Island was once the site of a very large munitions plant. Apparently much of the island is contaminated and could pose some very serious hazards to the unsuspecting person tramping over the terrain. This is truly an unfortunate circumstance for all as James is a very beautiful island of open meadows orchards, sand beaches groves of Arbutus, Gary Oak and scrub pine. Forest Island which is near by is now owned by a Montana millionaire who's very protective of his territory. This gentleman has posted, no trespassing above the high water mark, signs on trees along the island and employs a care taker guard who will climb into his utility boat and sit and watch as you approach the island. When this happen to myself and some friends I told him he's going to be a busy man if he has to do that every time a group of kayakers comes by. The island owner also asked the Federal Government about building a rock break wall. Unfortunately by the time the feds got back to him the wall was built. And when he wanted City water from Sidney he simply paid the $8,000 for the pipeline creating a precedent that will be tough to back away from when all the other millionaire islands owners want water. This wouldn't be an issue if we didn't have to ration water every year in the Sidney Victoria area. While he's no doubt trying to protect his sanctuary in fairness to the owner I suspect he's also afraid of potential fires. A fire on densely treed Forest island would run wild. Gordin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Gordin, Thanks for the lovely informative reply. It was indeed James Island I was referring to. Glad to hear the goon tried to lay down the (non)law on the wrong person! The landowners' concerns re contamination and fire hazards are valid ones. But they need to be addressed in the same way that similar situations would be for private land adjoining public parks. Landowners wouldn't expect to be allowed annex a buffer zone around their property from public parks. Neither should they expect to turn the public beach into a no-man's land. If they feel that signs aren't doing the trick, they're free to erect fences - on their land, above the higher high tide line. Kayakers and other boaters need to do their part by respecting private land, whether it's fenced or only signposted. It's the law that makes the beach public, and it's the law that makes the higher ground private. Common sense and courtesy by both landowners and "landers" would make it all go much smoother. Re the rock wall on Forest Island. If he had no permit, isn't that unauthorised alteration of the marine environment? Can he be made to dismantle it? Ibve heard of similar things when cottage owners have installed docks and ramps without getting them approved in advance. Cheers, Philip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Philip, At 03:00 PM 03/02/2005 -0500, kayakwriter_at_netscape.net wrote: >Kayakers and other boaters need to do their part by respecting private >land, whether it's fenced or only signposted. It's the law that makes the >beach public, and it's the law that makes the higher ground private. >Common sense and courtesy by both landowners and "landers" would make it >all go much smoother. I couldn't agree more. >Re the rock wall on Forest Island. If he had no permit, isn't that >unauthorised alteration of the marine environment? Can he be made to >dismantle it? Ibve heard of similar things when cottage owners have >installed docks and ramps without getting them approved in advance. Well we have some of the strongest environmental legislation in the world out here in BC. And by God we've got two environmental agents and a budget of $3.46 cents to back them up. They're feared by every millionaire and every other clown that believes they're above the law. I was out at my in laws waterfront home in East Sooke with some friends last year. We planned to launch and head out into Juan da Fuca for a day paddle in the surge and currents. The beach was covered in toilet paper. At first I wanted to blame the cruise ships that go up and down the Strait. But that seems really unlikely. Even if they had dumped their sewage I'm not convinced that the tides and winds would carry it into the bay. The bay is directly across from Whiffin Spit for those who are familiar with the area. My in laws home is adjacent to the illegally constructed wharf that juts out into the narrows about 150 meters. I've since ruled out a faulty sewage tank system. I'm convinced there are lots of those in the Sooke Basin but I don't think the effluent coming out of them would contain toilet paper. I suspect the real culprit was some pleasure boat that simply dumped the holding tank rather then pay to get it pumped out at the dock. In any event we rescheduled our bracing and rolling sessions until we were well away from the immediate area. We also kept the kids and dogs off the beach for the rest of the week. What can you do. Gordin Warner Victoria BC > >Cheers, > >Philip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin Warner said: > > For some odd reason my e mail program is only sending my > responses directly to the author and skipping Paddlewise. > I'm sure I'm at fault. > Gordin, Use "Reply All" if you want it to go to Paddlewise as well as the original author. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> As an aside it may be that the owner of James Island has safety in > mine. James Island was once the site of a very large munitions > plant. Apparently much of the island is contaminated and could pose some > very serious hazards to the unsuspecting person tramping over the > terrain. This is truly an unfortunate circumstance for all as James is a > very beautiful island of open meadows orchards, sand beaches groves of > Arbutus, Gary Oak and scrub pine. And a golf course designed by Jack Nicholas, an airport with its own huge water truck and many amenities. I doubt VERY MUCH that there is any danger to walking around the island from old munitions. In fact, if you are interested, it is for sale for $49,000,000. Owned by McCaw of McCaw Cellular. Apparently, it was originally destined to be developed with lots of condo's etc. McCaw temporarily saved it by buying it as a private island. Who knows what the next owner will bring. The sad thing is that the people of BC will not buy it as a park. They have essentially zero budget for this sort of thing. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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