OK, the "which binocs should I buy" question has been done several times but I'm asking for some opinions: Looking for on-water use but also casual in-camp use (e.g., wildlife watching although I'm not a "birder" is the true sense of the word!). On-water would be primarily scouting navigational landmarks or checking campsites to see if they are empty (e.g., BWCAW trips). Being in Wisconsin, I do primarily inland paddling with the exception of places like Apostle Islands although this is maybe a once a year trip. These would also be the only set of distance optics in our house - so I could possibly see them being used in other ways too. Here are 3 diverse choices: http://www.kayakacademy.com/catalog/BMonoc.html (6x30 monocular with neoprene float, $135) http://www.binoculars.com/products_v7/Bushnell_8x25_H2O_FRP_Compact_5640.html (compact 8x25 cheapie binocs, $40) http://www.binoculars.com/products_v7/Nikon_8x25_Mountaineer_II_ATB_165.html (compact 8x25 quality binocs, $185) Recognizing that price dictates quality in some regards - how bad would the $40 pair be?) Disposable? :o) With the neoprene float, I'm guessing the monocular isn't really THAT small (6" long) The field of view for the above are (at 1,000 ft): 340, 370, 330 feet So...can someone explain why the 6x30 would be better than the others in a moving craft? It would seem that they all view the same amount of area - so it isn't as though one is incredibly more powerful than the others. I recognize that I'm displaying my ignorance of optics at this point so feel free to educate me in that regard. Thanks very much for taking the time to share your knowledge! Keith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have 2 pair (unfortunately neither waterproff) and both are adequately clear and sharp: 1. Cheapie 2-barrell bushnells $20 that fit in shirt pocket. 8x21 or something like that. Not great but you have them with you when others would be at home or back in hte car. If lost or damaged it is "doggone" not "OH-MI-GAWD". 2. Ancient 7x35-WA, probably a cheap model. They have a 10-degree field (most WAs have only 8ish-deg) vs. the 6.5-deg of the standard model I give to the kids. That big field of vision is amazing when looking for birds on the wing or for other search tasks. I used to treat these like cheap throwaways, until I realized that I couldn't find the big width easily to replace them cheaply. So I only use them when secure now. 3. My wife (and my father) have expensive binocs. Very sharp and clear, and nice, but even Dad the birder uses his heavy ugly 7x35s more often because they have a wide (8-deg) angle, and his gorgeous 8x40 Nikons sit at home a lot. 4. I think that today's cheap hardware-store binos are not so great. The single focus or quick-focus are to stay away from. (The quick focus just puts all the adjustment that used to be available by turning the centre wheel a full turn or more, and puts it on a one-eighth turn with a lever. Very sensitive to a bit of adjustment and so very hard to actually focus those.) GaryJ Keith Wrage wrote: > OK, the "which binocs should I buy" question has been done several > times but I'm asking for some opinions: > > Looking for on-water use but also casual in-camp use (e.g., wildlife > watching although I'm not a "birder" is the true sense of the word!). > On-water would be primarily scouting navigational landmarks or > checking campsites to see if they are empty (e.g., BWCAW trips). > Being in Wisconsin, I do primarily inland paddling with the exception > of places like Apostle Islands although this is maybe a once a year > trip. These would also be the only set of distance optics in our > house - so I could possibly see them being used in other ways too. > Recognizing that price dictates quality in some regards - how bad > would the $40 pair be?) Disposable? :o) > With the neoprene float, I'm guessing the monocular isn't really THAT > small (6" long) > The field of view for the above are (at 1,000 ft): 340, 370, 330 feet > > So...can someone explain why the 6x30 would be better than the others > in a moving craft? It would seem that they all view the same amount > of area - so it isn't as though one is incredibly more powerful than > the others. I recognize that I'm displaying my ignorance of optics at > this point so feel free to educate me in that regard. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 24 Mar 2005 at 8:00, Keith Wrage wrote: > Here are 3 diverse choices: > http://www.kayakacademy.com/catalog/BMonoc.html (6x30 monocular with > neoprene float, $135) > > http://www.binoculars.com/products_v7/Bushnell_8x25_H2O_FRP_Compact_56 > 40.html (compact 8x25 cheapie binocs, $40) > > http://www.binoculars.com/products_v7/Nikon_8x25_Mountaineer_II_ATB_16 > 5.html (compact 8x25 quality binocs, $185) > > Recognizing that price dictates quality in some regards - how bad > would the $40 pair be?) Disposable? While these will in no way compare to the high-end binocs, they might be reasonable for someone that only wants occasional use with a price that won't hurt if they are lost or damaged. I have a relatively cheap pair of Bushnells quite similar to these and they are surprisingly sharp and clear. > The field of > view for the above are (at 1,000 ft): 340, 370, 330 feet > > So...can someone explain why the 6x30 would be better than the others > in a moving craft? It would seem that they all view the same amount > of area - so it isn't as though one is incredibly more powerful than > the others. They show roughly the same field of view, but at different magnifications. Comparing the monocular to the Nikon means that you'll see a smaller image (3/4 the size) of the same view with the monocular. The widest field will seem more like you're there rather than looking at a little picture. If you wear glasses, eye relief is important. Eye relief is the distance between the eyepiece and the focal plane of the binoculars. If that distance is short, your glasses will prevent your eye from getting close enough to see the whole image. If long enough, you will see the full image. For that reason, it is important to try the binocs/monocs before you buy. The exit pupil size of these will be different. The 8x25 have an exit pupil of 3mm (25 divided by 8) and the monocular has an exit pupil of 5mm (30 divided by 6). That means that the monocular will be easier to see thru most of the time - you are peeking thru a bigger hole. This can be a factor in usability. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Keith, as a point of reference, this is what I have been using the last five years: http://www.telescopes.net/canon_8_x_23_awp_waterproof_.html Durable, good eye compensation, small in size, but small exit pupil and not very good in dim light. The waterproof rating is genuine -- I have dropped mine in the water a couple times! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Keith, Before you commit to a pair of binocs, here are some considerations: 1. Clarity of image -- compare a hundred dollar pair of 8 or 9 power Nikons with a forty dollar pair of hardware store binocs. Sometimes money does not equate to better image quality. My current 8x23 Canon's (cost about $150 new) have poorer image quality than my old $100 8x23 Nikons. 2. Adjustment to fit differing corrections in your eyes -- I have a several-diopter-difference between my left eye and right eye, and many binocs can not bring both eyes into focus. [I am very near-sighted in the left eye and only slightly near-sighted in the right eye.] 3. Do you require eyeglasses? If you intend to wear them while using binocs, then you need binocs with fold-down eyecups. BTW, I find that the image quality is much better if I view directly, and the eyecups greatly reduce sideglare. Hence my need for a lot of correction -- per 2. above. 4. Waterproofness: mandatory if you use them out of your kayak. 5. Diameter of objective lens: those 6 x 30's will have __half__ the light-gathering power of a pair of 6 x 42's, at a relatively small increase in bulk and weight, although the 6 x 42's will cost substantially more.. 6. Power: anything over 7 power becomes problematic, most of the time if used from the bobbing confines of a cockpit. I used 8 power binocs for five years, and am backing off to 7 power ones this time around. This means an ideal unit for land-based birding (8 to 10 power is good) is not a good one for on-the-water viewing. 7. Age of your eyes. The older our eyes get, the less able they are to open the iris for good light gathering in dim conditions. This means the exit pupil diameter coming from a pair of binocs need not be as large for old eyes as it can be for younger eyes. [What's the exit pupil diameter? It is the diameter of the light cone exiting the rear of a pair of binocs. To get this number, divide the power into the diameter of the front (objective) lens.] Unfortunately, I don't know what the change is in iris opening with age -- maybe someone else on Paddlewise will. You can play around with different power binocs and figure out which ones work better for you. You want a unit with a large enough exit pupil to match your largest iris opening in dim light ... but anything larger is wasted. In bright light, your iris opening contracts quite a bit, so it will be fully covered by the exit pupil of almost any pair of binocs. HTH. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 24 Mar 2005 at 7:57, Dave Kruger wrote: > I don't know what the change is in iris opening with age -- > maybe someone else on Paddlewise will It varies a lot. It is also easy to measure. Get a ruler with a millimeter scale and stand in front of a mirror. The light level should be what you are interested in (very bright for daylight, very dim for nighttime). Let your eyes get used to the light and then look at the reflection of your pupil with the ruler held close to your eye. > You want a unit with a large enough exit pupil to match your > largest iris opening in dim light ... but anything larger is > wasted. True on land in dim light, but not necessarily in daylight in a moving kayak. If the exit pupil is larger than your eye's pupil then you can tolerate a moving eyepiece a bit more than if the exit pupil is small. You're looking through a little hole - the bigger the hole, the more your head can move relative to the hole while still allowing you to see through it. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Looking for on-water use but also casual in-camp use (e.g., wildlife > watching although I'm not a "birder" is the true sense of the > word!). On-water would be primarily scouting navigational landmarks or > checking campsites to see if they are empty (e.g., BWCAW trips). Monocular 6x will be good for scouting landmarks or checking campsites; besides, Brunton Eterna is compact, light and waterproof. Binocs from 6x to 8x with large lenses (30 or more) will be more comfortable to look through - on land - but with power more than 6x they could be too powerful in a cockpit (image becomes unstabile, very annoying); also, with lenses more than 40 they become too large and heavy, inconvenient for use in a kayak. > Recognizing that price dictates quality in some regards - how bad would the > $40 pair be?) Disposable? :o) Quite possibly - after the first dip. Go for waterproof ones, and with independent focusing for each ocular (in binocs). > With the neoprene float, I'm guessing the monocular isn't really THAT small > (6" long) My old cell phone is 6" long including antenna, still it is very small even in Aquapack bag \, and can be kept in a *small* PFD pocket (larger pocket is designated for sandwiches, gloves etc). With 6x30 or 6x40 binocs you'll need half of available room of your deckbag or day-hatch. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] Check out Eagle Optics, a Wisconsin company. I have a 7x32 Denali waterproof and have been very happy with them. Not one of the compacts, but not huge. About $90 but I don't recall if that was a sale or a reduced ongoing price. Excellent customer service. For on the water, I've heard that a monocular works well but don't haven't done it myself. Bruce Keith Wrage wrote: > OK, the "which binocs should I buy" question has been done several times > but I'm asking for some opinions: *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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