Hi, Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a golf umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. Thanks Paul *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
IMHO, there is a big difference between these two. I'm using a hands-free downwind V-sail. > Hi, > Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a golf > umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Saturday 23 April 2005 19.18, you wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a golf > umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. > Thanks Hi, I have studied the subject in detail and have bought a kite, but not yet tried it. First problem is how to deploy your kite - most kites need to be held up from the ground to be inflated, so to speak. How do you do that in a kayak? Secondly, the kite has to be fairly big to function when going down wind, as all kites need quite a lot of tension on the line(s) to work. No tension and it falls out of the sky. A big kite stays aloft in lower winds than a small one, but deploying small kites is easier (especially from a kayak), while a big might well be plain impossible. If you eventually get it aloft remember that going diagonally downwind works better, and a leeboard, or two, and a hefty rudder, are pretty essential! Four line kites are better in many ways, but remember that you have your hands fully occupied so there is no way you'll be able to handle both the kite and paddle! How are you going to avoid drowning when you and your kayak rolls due to the fantastic tug on the lines and you're ensnared in the kite lines? A few reported cases show that kites and kayaks can be lethal. A single line kite is easier to handle, but you can't dump it when you like, unless you let go of the lines totally! And you can still not brace yourself, as you have to reel in the line, or out, according to the wind speed and your speed! And as a single line kayak by design heads straight down wind you are even more mercy to the whims of the wind, and it has to be bigger for just the same reason, it risks stalling out of the sky easier than one that you manoeuver across the sky all the time! One way to improve things is to increase the drag of the kayak a lot, by dropping a sea anchor, or something like that. This way the tension in the line(s) is/are maintained, and you have more time to plan ahead. And outrigger(s) are more or less a must, if you don't want to risk your life each time you try it! Rafting up is probably also very wise! A huge single line kite, with a dumping line (that deflates it when you want it to) might be the best kite (typically the kind of kite used for KAP (kite-assisted aerial photography), but such a kite has no manoeuvrability, of course. But how you're going to get it into the air is a dilemma! Our kite is a big D-Quad (4.2m) and we'll use it more like as a sail, being at the top attached to our short, folding, mast. I have also modified it, so that if the wind becomes too much for comfort we let go the lines and it folds forward, a bit like the Balogh's Twins. We hope :-)! And we'll use our outrigger, and being two one can handle the kite and one can brace and steer! But we haven't tested it yet! Yours, Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Culp's speedsailing page: http://www.dcss.org/speedsl/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've used a small 1.5m kite before. Launching wasn't a problem since it was small enough to inflate by holding an end with each hand and lifting up into the wind. Since it was a single line kite, I could just Velcro the line holder to the bungees in front of the cockpit (knife within easy reach!). Certainly not a speed kite but for plain sailing it worked reasonably well. Much prefer a V sail since it is easier to set and pull down and it also allows strong gusts to spill from the sail, thus you sail at a more even speed. You can make your own for under NZ$50 (instead of buying a commercial one for over NZ$350) Plans are at http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/grantglazer/Kayak/Hintssail.htm Cheers Grant *** * Tord Eriksson wrote: >On Saturday 23 April 2005 19.18, you wrote: > > >>Hi, >>Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a golf >>umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. >>Thanks *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 23 Apr 2005 at 19:18, Paul Ash wrote: > Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a > golf umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. Little personal experience, since I've only used borrowed umbrellas on day trips for a few minutes. Around here, golf umbrellas are popular - they are big, tough, not subject to corrosion (all plastic and fiberglass) and spill excess wind (they are Gustbusters or equivalent). They can be handled with one hand or snagged under a deck bungie/line. They store easily under deck bungies. I've had my eye out for one on sale for a while; they're pricy when new. You can really scoot along with one. I've been toying with making a kite as well. I have a ton of very light Dacron sailcloth 330mm wide (just over one foot) - the end of a roll sawn off. When Amie saw it, she thought it was a roll of paper towel. Well under 2 oz per yard stuff. $0.50 at a garage sale! So far I use it for making light stuff sacks. However, when I think of how easy it is to use a brollie, the kite isn't as attractive. I have a rudderless kayak, so the kite seems like it would be a tad more trouble to control. If I took sailing a kayak seriously, I'd consider a deck-mounted sail, but then I recently inherited an old Hammer foldable kayak (two seater) complete with sail rig (main and jib) that just begs to be reconditioned and sailed. So many projects, so little time... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In addition to the extensive coverage by Tord, - I think that kite will be quite ineffective when wet, - and there is a good chance of this in a kayak. If you are looking for some thrill, then may be a kite will make a paddling day less boring. But if you are looking for effective, hands-free and relatively trouble-free way of augmenting your paddling power, - then V-sails or small batwing sails are the way to go. There are at least 3 commercial V-sails,- Spirit, Quiver, and Pacific Action. Spirit and PA have been reviewed at the Watertribe website: http://www.watertribe.org/Magazine/2003_1January/IsaacClass1SailRig.asp , http://www.watertribe.com/Magazine/Y2004/M10/SteveIsaacPacificActionSail.asp x . There is at least one commercial design of high-aspect, scary-looking battened sails in NZ (with the mast all the way down to the hull bottom): http://www.vision.net.au/~jennings/sail/sail.html , and hinged designs of low-aspect batwing sails in NSW (Australia) by Norm Sanders and others - not commercial, but quite popular there: http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/36/osdgl.html . The last one looks quite appealing, with a low center of effort, easily raised, lowered and trimmed. This particular one looks a little bit small - I've calculated 0.6 sq.m (7 sq.ft) from the diagram. With a "normal" kayak of 23"-25" beam anything over 1 sq.m (11 sq.ft) will be too much, anyway. The most expensive and the only permamently attached part would be universal tiller joint (about $30), with a total cost around $70. On some photos at NSW website I see that this joint remains on the deck with a short "female" lower section of the mast, while "male" section with sail is bungeyed to the deck when not needed. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Alex wrote:- >low-aspect batwing sails in NSW (Australia) by >Norm Sanders and others - not commercial, but >quite popular there: http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/mag/36/osdgl.html . >The last one looks quite appealing, with a low >center of effort, easily raised, lowered and trimmed. >This particular one looks a little bit small - >I've calculated 0.6 sq.m (7 sq.ft) from the diagram. >With a "normal" kayak of 23"-25" beam anything over >1 sq.m (11 sq.ft) will be too much, anyway. G'Day Alex, I can vouch for the Norm Sanders design. I've been using it for several years and as you say it's very popular here. Your description of its performance is on the button. Last week I was using it in about 1.5m sea and 15knot winds and it was straightforward to raise and lower, which we had to do as we rounded points when we were facing up wind. Don't think I'ld be using a golf umbrella in those conditions! Its also easy to lower after capsizing for rolling up. Because the sail is set quite forward it overcomes the tendency of my boat to turn off larger waves in a following sea. My website gives a bit more detail on fitting the sail. http://home.iprimus.com.au/rebyl_kayak/ although I'm about to move the side stay deck attachments a bit further forward. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Ash wrote: >Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a golf >umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. Hi, Do not normally post, but, yes I use a golf umbrella when the wind is going my way. For me, it works just fine. Stows easily. Deploys easily. Cheap to replace. Mine has the over pressure feature. Too much wind is just dumped through the flap. Of course I would not recommend an umbrella for long or extended distances. Holding the umbrella becomes tiresome and then there is fact that one hand will be unavailable for anything else. My kayak has a (much discussed/hated/loved) rudder and FWIW the combination works for me. I would estimate my best speed to date has been about 8-10 mph. Roggie ;-] Longview, WA, USA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Ash wrote: >Does anyone here have experience of using a kite to tow a kayak? (Or a golf >umbrella, for that matter). I'd be interested in any comments. G'Day Paul, I think a kite is a pretty inflexible method for using the wind. Downwind sailing only and the ones I've seen have a lot of lines to tangle up. Umbrella's might be ok for fun sailing/races in safe conditions but not for serious touring. I don't think you can beat a sail fitted to the deck for touring. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi, Thanks to all who gave advice. Clearly a sail rig is the way to go. I will, however, try the umbrella option on a forthcoming expedition up the west shore of Lake Malawi (Mozambique). Paddling a plastic double so my paddling partner (wife) can have the dubious pleasure of holding the umbrella, should we get some favourable winds. Will report back at the end of May. cheers and thanks Paul *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have a 7.5 and a 15 sq. ft parafoil. The 7.5 would pull me along faster than I would be blown without it but it wouldn't pull me at hull speed. The 15 sq. ft. works very well on land but I have rarely found it beneficial on the water. Way more trouble than it is worth in my opinion. It is difficult to get it launched from the water and more problem trying to keep it up in the air once I do. If the wind slows a little you end up back paddling to keep it in the air while your paddling friends are disappearing around the next point. I have found it especially difficult to relaunch once it has gotten wet. Once in a 25 to 30 knot blow on Dungeness Spit (in the old days before it was ranger infested) that kite got my adrenaline up. After my partner released the bow and the kayak pivoted out to sea (I felt like a bull rider swinging out sideways as the gate opens) and then immediately started to plane it only took me a few seconds to realize I had a tiger by the tail and wasn't sure how to let go. It had me planing across the water as it swung me side to side as it lashed back and forth. I was in my narrowest (20.5" wide) kayak. I quickly realized that if I dumped and lost my grip on the kayak it would easily sail the many miles to the next shore without me. I got out my knife so I could cut the line quickly if necessary. I had a devil of a time making progress at getting the kite back down while trying not to drop and snag the paddle (that I had tucked under my armpit in order to work the hand reel) and keep my balance without the use of the paddle. If I back paddled hard I could barely hold my position against the wind. I seriously considered cutting it loose but didn't want to loose the expensive kite. I managed by fits and starts to make some progress (gain a few wraps on the reel then loose a few, tuck the paddle back up further under my arm again) and eventually reeled it most of the way in. When it was only a few feet away I thought I might not even get it wet but it swung over and dove into the water. Then I was afraid it would act as a sea anchor and yank me over as I planed past it on momentum. A wild ride I won't soon forget. I could have made great time that day if I had wanted to go that way but I was going to have to paddle back into the wind to the spit afterward so didn't want to go too far. The last time I tried to use it was near camp after a long crossing. I spend an hour fussing with it without much success. Convinced there must be something wrong with it I tried it again once I was at camp. It worked perfectly with just being tied of to a log. Sails are way more practical but don't mess with leeboard and the like. It is much easier to paddle up wind than to sail that way so why bother with all the excess baggage when you already have the paddle. With a kite I could "sail" (without a rudder) more than 45 degrees to each side of straight downwind (by how I positioned the rotating line between the bow and my cockpit I attached the kite line to. With a simple spinnaker (on an old Feathercraft double) I was able to sail nearly 90 degrees off the wind (by wrapping the spinnaker around the mast some and using it like a mainsail. Unless the sail is very easy to set up you will probably get to your destination quickest by paddling anyhow but sailing might save some energy (if you don't have to hold it up against the wind anyway). Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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