I've read numerous times that folks sometimes rely on dry bags for flotation in concert with flotation bags or by themselves on occasion. Has anyone observed the efficacy of these two forms of flotation in a kayak. My guess is that the dry bags will not be as efficient as dedicated float bags. John MacKechnie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:48 PM 4/8/2005 -0400, John MacKechnie wrote: >I've read numerous times that folks sometimes rely on dry bags for >flotation in concert with flotation bags or by themselves on occasion. > >Has anyone observed the efficacy of these two forms of flotation in a kayak. > >My guess is that the dry bags will not be as efficient as dedicated float >bags. Flotation or drybags usefulness isn't so much related to how much buoyancy they add as much as the the fact that they displace water that would occupy the space if the bags are not there. Most kayaks and canoes are going to be close to neutrally buoyant, so while a small floatbag with nothing in it but air will keep the craft afloat, you might not be able to actually navigate the boat if the rest of the cockpit filled with water. Whereas, dry bags filled with gear may not add much in the way of floatation, but the fact that they displace water will allow the boat to be paddled after a capsize and the boat righted and reentered. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"John MacKechnie" <bigmac1_at_enter.net> wrote: > My guess is that the dry bags will not be as efficient as dedicated float > bags. Two ways to look at it: Dry bags with relatively incompressible, lightweight stuff : e.g., clothing, sleeping bags, etc., may be better, because they are not so vulnerable to punctures. OTOH, as you surmise, the net buoyant effect of a dry bag with things in it is less than that of a flotation bag with only air. When I paddle open-cockpit/no-bulkheaded boats, I use a combination of both, attaching the deflated flotation bags high (to the ends and to the sheers) underdecks, loading all my dry-bagged stuff low, and inflating the float bags to help trap the dry bags and to fill as much underdeck space as I can with flotation. For open cockpit boats -- Klepper, Folbot, Nautiraid, etc. -- this is critical in case of a capsize. If you use this sort of boat for day trips when most of your dry-bagged gear is ashore, the flotation bags need to be big enough to fill those underdeck spaces by themselves. In any case, consider the material which forms the outside of the flotation carefully -- pretty easy to hole some of the nonfabric-based plastic ones. For my money, the NRS 3D-End Bags (and similar) are a good compromise of light weight and durability. These come with D-tabs at corners to assist in anchoring to the inside of a folder. Inside a hardshell, you'd have to glass in attachment points or use some other adhesive. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John MacKechnie asked: >>>>>>I've read numerous times that folks sometimes rely on dry bags for flotation in concert with flotation bags or by themselves on occasion. Has anyone observed the efficacy of these two forms of flotation in a kayak. My guess is that the dry bags will not be as efficient as dedicated float bags.<<<<<<<< For a detailed discussion of "Flotation and the pros and cons and vulnerabilities of different flotation methods read the "Flotation" manual on our website. Look for it in the "Manuals" pick box. To answer your question directly: It depends on the volume each system displaces and the weight of you your kayak and gear to whether you have enough flotation or not. Several large gear bags that fill up the space that you aren't taking up yourself would work better (provide more buoyancy) than some small whitewater kayak sized float bags just stuck in the ends of your kayak. Size matters! Most float bags I've seen are inadequately small to be used in sea kayaks. I like the float bag flotation system (and mostly paddle with them rather than with bulkheads). As a store owner I would rather buy something ready made by several different builders (to sell in our store) rather than have to make it ourselves or have it custom made for us. Supply is so much more reliable that way. Because nothing big enough in float bags was available we were forced to have sea kayaks sized float bags custom made. Now that I am retiring I'd love to see large sized float bags available elsewhere so I don't have to continue to keep enough available to supply the future needs of those who have purchased kayaks from us (that use the float bag system for flotation). Does anybody know of any other source for very large sea kayak sized float bags? A float bag should fill up most of the space not taken up by the paddler. You don't need to leave room for gear in advance because the float bag can always be deflated as much as necessary to accommodate the gear in water resistant bags that you want to add. This way the displaced volume is maintained by the combination of gear and float bags. In general, gear bags by themselves won't be able to displace as much volume as a big float bag that can be topped up to fill the space available and the gear in them will add some weight (and something bulky inside them is necessary to maintain the volume--because few are air tight). The plus side is that a puncture in a gear bag with gear in it won't have much effect on your buoyancy but a float bag will eventually go flat if it is punctured. If you leave the float bags inflated between paddles you will know if they have a slow leak or not. If they have long enough inflation tubes that you can inflate them from the cockpit, one with a slow leak could be inflated while paddling if necessary before you have a chance to repair it. Gear bags need to be smaller than float bags as it will be too much struggle to get a full sized one in place in the kayak. Too many small gear bags have too much space between them (where the water can flow) so aren't as buoyant as a larger one. You can maximize the buoyancy by getting gear bags that just fit inside the kayak when they are full. I like to use a large tapered gear bag in each end of the kayak and then an extra large rectangular bag to fill up most of the rest of the space available between the tapered bags and me. This way the gear bags are small enough to load into the kayak and carry up to camp easily but not so small to lose too much in buoyancy. Another problem with a bunch of littler bags is keeping them from floating out of the kayak like a bunch of ping-pong balls could in a capsize. You always want at least the bags closest to the cockpit to be big enough to form a plug that will not be able to float out (or have some other method of securing the bags in the kayak). Having the gear bags full of gear does sink the kayak lower in the water and therefore reduces the positive buoyancy you may need to be able to get back in the kayak before pumping it out. This is no different with a bulkhead system though. The key here is having a big enough kayak so the reserve buoyancy is adequate for someone your weight and the addition of a heavy load of gear. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt and all, Folbot makes a large nylon floatation bag, which they brought out for the Cooper. It doesn't seem to be listed on their online store, just the small plastic bags- which are too small. I think the large bags were about $60/pair. They work well in the Cooper, which is 16.5 ft. Bruce Flagstaff, AZ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just bought two float bags from NOC for either end of my open deck racing hull. I first went with the larger 60" solo end bags for canoe. The length was great for my 21' boat but, the volume was so much bigger than my boat it they looked like bread rising out of the pan. I than went with the smaller 44" float bag retro for kayaks. These fit great but, now there is still a lot of open space in my boat. I will probably look into getting a couple dry/gear bags to take up some more of the space. As someone mentioned in an earlier post it's not so much buoyancy I'm looking for but, reduced open space. Stephen F Logan Bay City, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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