This weekend I volunteered to help out at a local kayaking expo. There were 4 retailers and several manufacturing representatives at the show as well as a few guides and rental businesses. I was assigned to work at the sign in for the demo area. From the conversations I had and several that I overheard I learned a lot about "Modern Kayaking". 1. Fiberglass is an outdated material that is totally inappropriate for modern kayaking. Polyethylene and the new "Thermoformed Plastics (ABS/MMA composites) are the "Modern" choice due to their strength and durability. Polyethylene is probably the best especially when you factor in durability/price ratio. 2. Any single kayak over 14 ft is really too long to be useful except in very specialized situations. The 12ft and 13ft sizes being ideal. I think proper fit in the back of a pickup bed is the major reason for this, but weight and maneuverability were also mentioned. 3. A kayak should be stable enough that you can easily stand up in it so that you have a better viewing angle for spotting fish. Primary stability is what keeps a kayak from turning over. Secondary stability is some added stability you get when the kayak is moving. 4. One of the newest special features in kayak outfitting is the deep rear deck indentation that has built in grooves that will accept either a milk crate or a 5-gal bucket for holding gear. Storage versatility is very important. 5. Sit-inside kayaks especially when used with sprayskirts are death traps. 6. If you are interested more in touring (covering some distance) than just fishing you should get a kayak that is propelled by pedal driven flippers. It seems even Euro and wing paddles are not all they are cracked up to be. 7. There is some interest in Greenland paddles since they are easier to use for polling the kayak while standing than are the Euro paddles. I soon realized that my inexperience (only 17 years kayaking) had lead me to make a terrible mistake in purchasing my 20.5" x 17 ft fiberglass sit-inside kayak. I thought briefly about taking it over to the "For Sale" area, but it quickly became apparent that no one would want to pay more than $200 for a used kayak. As you might have guessed there was not a single sit-inside kayak (plastic or fiberglass) in the demo area. Only one vendor even had a single cockpitted kayak and that was a 13.5 ft model that I would describe as being somewhere between a rec boat and a touring kayak. For the 2 days I was at the event my kayak was the only touring kayak I saw either at a vendor or with an attendee. Modern Kayaking has many branches. Although I would not have been happy paddling any of the kayaks on display I talked with lots of people who owned those models and were delighted with them. For in-shore fishing and touring in the warm shallow protected waters in our area the shorter sit-on tops make a lot of sense. We have great water access so it is almost never necessary to paddle any distance to get to a desirable destination. Still it is amazing to me that I can be in an area where kayaking is so popular and still feel like I am involved in some strange fringe sport because my choice of equipment is so different from almost everyone else in the area. Well, to each his own. Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/8/06, Mark Arnold <mjamja_at_earthlink.net> wrote: > > This weekend I volunteered to help out at a local kayaking expo. ...snip... > Still it is amazing to me that I can be in an area where kayaking is so > popular and still feel like I am involved in some strange fringe sport > because my choice of equipment is so different from almost everyone else in > the area. Well, to each his own. It's easy to start thinking that PaddleWise is mainstream for kayaking because, while we might debate details, most of us could paddle together and more-or-less agree on what is fun. But, trust me, we're on the fringes of today's paddling. As I paddle around my lake I notice lots of kayaks on my neighbors' docks and beaches and almost none of them would merit a second glance from anyone on this list. And, frankly, I almost never see anyone out paddling them either. Probably because they just paddle in front of their beach. That's because we recognize our own. Pam mentioned to me that she was paddling near the Tacoma Narrows and encountered some paddlers. They were in Valley boats wearing drysuits and she was in her Mariner Sprite and in a drysuit and so, quite naturally, they stopped and chatted a bit. It reminds me of that Smother's Brothers song, "I could see by his outfit that he was a cowboy". >From a marketing perspective I suspect that many manufacturers would like to move paddlers from one level to another in much the same way Detroit used to try to move us from one model of car to another. From a plastic boat on flat water up to (eventually) a kevlar kayak paddling Haida Gwai. But they need to get them into the activity first and most of the people at many of these kayak expos are aware that paddling is potentially dangerous stuff. So they get them on the water in a cheap poly boat and let them discover the layers of paddling for themselves. Soon some are subscribing to Sea Kayaker and reading Paddlewise and thinking about kayaks in a new light. Others will keep their boats upside-down on their docks or in their garages or backyards except for a weekend exursion now and then. A few of them will try that plastic boat in a river and watch some hotshots surfing a hole and move in that direction. Or one of their kids will. Ya gotta start somewhere, I guess. :) Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>It's easy to start thinking that PaddleWise is mainstream for kayaking >because, while we might debate details, most of us could paddle together and >more-or-less agree on what is fun. But, trust me, we're on the fringes of >today's paddling. > > > Concur. My club thinks I am a friendly, over the top freak. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Please Note: No offence is intended by this message. Anyone who is easily offended must read the invisible disclaimer found below before proceeding. > Concur. My club thinks I am a friendly, over the > top freak. I like to look at this more in terms of skill level. Does having a high skill level and pushing one's limits make them a freak? Pushing the limits and challinging one's skills should increase one's skill level (even if those limits are beginner limits). Does the act of learning make one a "freak in training?" One reason I personally like this list is its educational value. Does participating in paddlewise make us all "freaks in training?" In the kayaking context, what is the definition of "freak?" Derek ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/8/06, Derek <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > I like to look at this more in terms of skill level. > Does having a high skill level and pushing one's > limits make them a freak? > I wonder if "skill level" has a place on a freak-o-meter. It doesn't take much skill to tie a bungee-cord to your legs and jump off a bridge. Enough, perhaps, to know how to tie the knots and calculate the length of cord, But it certainly rates high on my freak-o-meter <he says, tapping the dial>. For some people just discerning a skill is difficult and they have to be trained to it. Pole-vaulting is an obvious skillset but a high-brace on the face of a breaker is probably not so obvious. A roll is an obvious skill but reading the water isn't. And then there are downsides to the obvious skill that makes people degrade them. "Cold and wet" are the downsides to a roll and I'm thinking that there are a lot of folks who wouldn't want to learn to do it based just on that. And how useful is the skill? I'd bet that not one single person who owns the kayaks I see on the beaches and docks of my lake can roll them; or even brace. That is a skill that they just don't recognize because they don't ever need it. But even so, the people on the Deception Pass bridge watching sea kayakers playing in the boils and eddies below can certainly appreciate the skills on display. For most they are remote and essentially useless skills. But a few will say "oh, cool!" and start down the road. And every weekend that I'm out on the salt water I meet someone who is very good and very skillful and has no clue that Paddlewise exists; nor cares. I'd guess that my brother-in-law, who has paddled solo from Everett to S.E. Alaska, doesn't take Sea Kayaker. I know he doesn't read Paddlewise. I think that a solo paddle like that is truly freaky. But I know he thought *I* was the freak because I'd willingly lead on our rock climbing expeditions 30 years ago and even climb without ropes or any protection (although not anything really serious). So maybe it takes very careful calibration of the freak-o-meter to determine just who is what and when. :) Craig Jungers Not so Freaky in Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: [re:] >> Concur. My club thinks I am a friendly, over the top freak. > > I like to look at this more in terms of skill level. Does having a high > skill level and pushing one's limits make them a freak? Pushing the > limits and challinging one's skills should increase one's skill level > (even if those limits are beginner limits). Does the act of learning > make one a "freak in training?" One reason I personally like this list > is its educational value. Does participating in paddlewise make us all > "freaks in training?" > > In the kayaking context, what is the definition of "freak?" Right on, Derek! I can dig a calm afternoon tooling around in a rec kayak, but I also dig more adventurous paddling, also. No doubt more of the rec variety of paddlecraft are sold ... just makes the higher end stuff more of a niche market. Must be a bunch of elitist snobs, in their fancy boats and paddle jackets and Goretex suits, eh? [grin] Flare guns to the fore! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/8/06, Mark Arnold <mjamja_at_earthlink.net> wrote: > This weekend I volunteered to help out at a local kayaking expo. > ..snip... > Still it is amazing to me that I can be in an area where kayaking is so > popular and still feel like I am involved in some strange fringe sport > because my choice of equipment is so different from almost everyone else in > the area. Well, to each his own. Some of this is related to location and nature of the waters available to paddle on. Mark, you all have warm water down there. Here on the Columbia River, the average winter water temp is below 50F, sometimes edging into the high 30's, and in summer it reaches a max of about 65F on a good day. The ocean is cold all year round, running about 45-50F, typically, depending on the degree of upwelling occurring. Surf? Oh, boy! We got surf -- most of the time the open beaches here are the realm of experts (plunging waves well over six feet), and ordinary layup sea kayaks will be broken in waves if they arrive in the impact zone. Rarely, the open beaches have waves in the 2- to 4-foot range. Clever and talented paddlers use points of land as shields to get out past the monster breakers, and explore huge sea caves and the few rock gardens we have. In addition, most areas of the main stem Columbia have big fetches and can have strong wind at times. The result is that I almost never see a recreational kayak where I paddle, although there is a wealth of very protected backwaters on the Columbia where a rec kayak is perfect -- much handier than a 17-foot boat, any time. Perversely, many full-on sea kayaks here only see the water once or twice a year, the owners having "moved on" to other endeavors. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark- Just curious, but where do you live? Geoff > This weekend I volunteered to help out at a local kayaking expo. There > were 4 retailers and several manufacturing representatives at the show as > well as a few guides and rental businesses. I was assigned to work at the > sign in for the demo area. From the conversations I had and several that > I overheard I learned a lot about "Modern Kayaking". > ____________________________________ Geoff Jennings MBA Candidate, 2007 Graduate School of Management University of California, Davis (530) 852-4754 - geoff_at_texaskilonewton.com http://www.texaskilonewton.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It was not just the fact that everything was poly. There was not a single touring kayak, poly, ABS, fiberglass, or kevlar, at the symposium. Everything was a SOT. It was kind of like going to a motorcycle show and seeing nothing but trikes. Nothing wrong with them, but definitely not the only thing you expect to see. Both of the Wilderness Systems dealers at the show indicated that they had no interest in carrying any of Wilderness Systems sit-inside models much less carrying one of their "touring" models. I would have been delighted just to see a poly Tsunami 140. Paul wrote: The poly kayaks really fly off of the shelf and it's because they are amazingly cheap. Just watch your average person who thinks they might be interested in kayaking when you show them a $2000 - $3000 price tag on a 'good' kayak. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I live in Corpus Christi, Tx. It is on the Gulf of Mexico about 200 miles south of Houston. > > Mark- > > Just curious, but where do you live? > > Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I paddle in the Chicago area where lots of the people I paddle with have "real" sea kayaks with decks, cockpits, bulkheads, etc. Yet only a very small number of them ever go camping out of their boats. So why bother buying an expedition boat? There are probably lots of reasons, but I view my sea kayak as an expedition vehicle and am sometimes puzzled by the boat choices people make. My daily paddles are in my slalom boat because it easier to carry to the river and is more fun to paddle. My Feathercraft is a fantastic boat when I have to fly in to paddle. My whitewater play boat is only good in whitewater, but there it is a total delight to paddle. My skin on frame boat is the fastest and best looking boat I have, it is used when I want a speed rush or want to impress people. I even have a forty year old kayak polo boat for smashing through ice and for bird rescues. Other people's boat choices, I'm sure, make sense to them. Bless those bathtub boaters, they are voices to be heard when we all get together and push for things like access, clean water, habitat preservation and all that. But I, too, cringe a bit when people call them kayaks. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I still have the bathtub I started out with hanging in the garage, an Old Town Loon 160T lacking only jacuzzi jets and a hand held shower. After 4 years in a grown-up boat, I think it is only this year that I can get through a paddle without suddenly thinking: "what am I doing in this death trap?" I sometimes miss the simplicity of being out in the Loon and it's ample room for storing my PFD, but with my skills growing I'm feeling pretty OK in my QCC. Besides, the claw feet on my tub really cuts down on hull speed. I'm happy to see everyone on the water. Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net -----Original Message----- 5. Sit-inside kayaks especially when used with sprayskirts are death traps. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > I still have the bathtub I started out with hanging in the garage, an Old > Town Loon 160T lacking only jacuzzi jets and a hand held shower. /start Mick Dundee impression That's not a bathtub. THIS <http://tinyurl.com/yhu2cz> is a bathtub. /end MDi -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
And someone bought it! And they paid $162.50 for it too. LOL Hey, I have a Loon 130 my daughter learned to paddle in and that she used to introduce her boyfriend (now husband) to kayaking (he capsized it twice). They both have Nimbus kevlar kaya.... er, deathtraps. You have to start somewhere. :) Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 11/9/06, Steve Cramer <cramersec_at_charter.net> wrote: > > Mark Sanders wrote: > > I still have the bathtub I started out with hanging in the garage, an > > Old Town Loon 160T lacking only jacuzzi jets and a hand held >shower. > > /start Mick Dundee impression > > That's not a bathtub. THIS <http://tinyurl.com/yhu2cz> is a bathtub. > > /end MDi > > -- > Steve Cramer > Athens, GA > http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > And someone bought it! And they paid $162.50 for it too. LOL > > Hey, I have a Loon 130 my daughter learned to paddle in and that she used to > introduce her boyfriend (now husband) to kayaking (he capsized it twice). > They both have Nimbus kevlar kaya.... er, deathtraps. > > You have to start somewhere. :) > In my case, although I owned a couple of canoes long, long ago, my first kayak was a Perception Caspia, a 12' long, 28" wide recreational kayak, the because I didn't know any better assumed I could use for fishing, paddling on our large lake, and maybe even run some easy whitewater (sound familiar?). After buying the kayak I took a "Introduction to Sea Kayaking" course where I got to paddle several touring kaya...er, death traps. Within three weeks of buying my first kayak I started shopping for a new one. I ended up selling the Caspia (for about half what I paid for it) about a month after I bought my second kayak , a fiberglass VCP Skerray. I still paddle the Skerray quite a bit, almost exclusively since my cedar strip Outer Island was broken in half. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
These plastic kayaks do indeed provide value in many uses. They are basically water toys--and in the end that is what it is all about. When I look at how much real canoe tripping our 17.5 ft ultra-light kevlar canoe does, compared to paddling across a little lake and back, I think we could have saved a bundle of money.... My kids use our old Perception Dancer (remember when that was a hot ww kayak!) as a toboggan. Two or three teenagers piled on it and it is the fastest thing on the hill. GaryJ Craig Jungers wrote: > And someone bought it! And they paid $162.50 for it too. LOL > > Hey, I have a Loon 130 my daughter learned to paddle in and that she used to > introduce her boyfriend (now husband) to kayaking (he capsized it twice). > They both have Nimbus kevlar kaya.... er, deathtraps. > > You have to start somewhere. :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The fastest thing on the hill is my fibreglas slalom boat - much faster than that sticky plastic. Find a glas boat and try it on the snow - you'll never go back. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James wrote: >The fastest thing on the hill is my fibreglas slalom boat - much faster >than that sticky plastic. Find a glas boat and try it on the snow - >you'll never go back. > > >I wonder what would happen if you glassed the bottom of a toboggan? Seems like it wouldnt be hard. You could freak everyone out by adding a little graphite powder to the mix and leave black streaks all over the hill. Think of it! > Jim et al cruising high on caffeine *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jim Farrelly wrote: >> I wonder what would happen if you glassed the bottom of a toboggan? Naahh - graphite-based P-Tex with fluoro-based wax. Ask any skier (or snowboard racer I suppose). Just match the wax to the temperature of the snow. I had a pair of old Rossignol cross-country skis with an ABS-type plastic base. They were faster at really cold temps without wax than any ski I've ever used. I chose them over my racing skis when doing the Canadian Ski Marathon (83km the first day at -30C - the second day I spent nursing an injury (advice to idiots - don't stand in the middle of a trail on a downhill section with a blind turn during a competition) in front of the fireplace in the lobby of the Chateau Montebello, a massive log hotel from the glory days of rail). I've ridden my WW kayak down a steep grassy slope at a friend's farm. The pond at the bottom of the hill made for an interesting stop. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Do you ride in or on? On a very icy hill, I have been reluctant to allow the teens to ride inside, for fear of injuries, especaially spinal. They can bail out and roll madly, without being seriously hurt. (Of course, wearing half their hockey gear helps that!) GaryJ James wrote: > The fastest thing on the hill is my fibreglas slalom boat - much faster > than that sticky plastic. Find a glas boat and try it on the snow - > you'll never go back. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Garys asked "Do you ride in or on?" I have always ridden sitting inside the boat. I've always been a big risk taker so I never even considered spinal injuries. None so far. Since I am old and my boats are old, the whitewater play boats (all plastic, unfortunately) are roomy enough to scootch down into them with my whole body - head behind the cockpit opening but nothing above the deck. This makes for a really wild ride if the person who pushes the boat gives it a bit of a spin. Of course, I do this only on hills with no bumps. The sledding hills in my area have no trees or other hazards. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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