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From: Tord Eriksson <tord_at_tord.nu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] health issues and procreation
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 19:25:37 +0100
On Friday 17 November 2006 06:54, Don Margiani wrote:

> Personally, I haven't noticed the population of sea kayakers
> diminishing but I do have a theory as to why it may be happening.
> This may turn out to be a very unpopular opinion but I have noticed
> the vast majority of sea yakers are typically of the politically
> liberal persuasion.  U.S. census data clearly states that the
> reproduction rate for this group is less than the current U.S. average
> of 2.3 children, a number required to only maintain the current
> population, not grow it.  Southern and Midwestern conservative families
> have a higher birth rate but have limited access to sea kayaking
> although I'm sure many are using plastic boats to hunt and fish with.
>  The minorities, whose populations are mostly located in urban
> environments, typically, not as a rule, do not have the access or the
> means to invest more than $5000 in an unpopular sport.
>
> I truly hope no one takes anything I wrote as elitist, racist or
> political. None of it was meant to be.  These are just facts or
> observations I have read, heard or seen from multiple data sources.
>
> For the sake of disclosure I am an environmentalist, a moderate
> Republican, a sea kayaker, an I have just one child.  Wanna talk about a
> dying breed???

Don,

Even though I am a liberal at heart, no kids, I'm quite conservative in 
some respects. Don, I think you're talking a lot of sense, as before the 
cheapo plastic kayaks arrived in force, kayaking was very much a sport 
for a select group! Canoes were cheaper and more accepted, and an 
Eskimo roll was something very suspect - and the press was usually
there to witness it.

The same type of select group is to this very day folding kayakers,
and sailing canoe/kaykists, due to the cost, in turn partly due to the 
small market.

Unless you come into the sport through family ties (like inheriting a 
sailing canoe, or funds enough for buying one), you usually have been 
around quite a while before switching to folding kayaks, or even more so, 
sailing canoes. 

To begin with you almost always need a good job, getting paid enough
to have holidays, a car and a boat, and somewhere to store the latter -
if you live in an appartment you might rent space at the local canoe club,
or have a folder, like us. Storage outdoor, or indoors, is easier in a 
private house, but not that simple, as thieves, or just stupid kids, 
might be a problem.

Gordon Brown, the famous Scottish kayakist and instructor, lives in a part
of the world where thieves are very rare, so he stores most of his
kayaks outdoor, but the Greenland and folders indoors!

Here, in Gothenburg, Sweden, it would be, if I did live in a villa, or 
similar, in most parts of the town, quite out of the question to store 
them like that, unless heavily padlocked, and you might need some 
sort of perimeter defense, as well :-(!

Far more common is stolen bigger boats, and even more common, stolen 
outboards, though. 

There are about ten million people in Sweden, and about 8% own a horse,
and 8% own a boat (kayaks and such lesser vessels not included), and as
many play golf! About 5% are retired before reaching retiring age, due
to handicap, et cetera, and another 5% unemployed. The Swedes are, 
statistically, 70% car owners, but as quite a few haven't got a drivers 
license, or are too young, or too old, to drive, or just go to Avis (or 
similar) when they need a car, a few rich have a lot of cars - most 
well-to-do couples have at least two.

So 50% of the population is either too young, or too old to own a kayak,
the ones retired before retiring age, or unemployed, another 10%, can't
afford kayaking, or have to stay near a phone, 24% play with their horses, 
putter about in their boats, or play golf (a number more rent boats, golf 
clubs and horses, but we'll skip them), and some work - say at least 
15%.

That leaves only 1% potential kayak-owners/users, and quite a few of 
those have other weird interests, like spending their off time in bars, 
climbing mountains, flying model airplanes, reading and writing emails, 
travelling abroad, performing and enjoying art, or fishing, and some live 
far from any water that can be used for paddling, so it isn't that 
surprising that we seldom meet fellow paddlers :-(!

Tord
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From: <SlipinN_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] health issues and procreation
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:38:47 EST
I think the important thing to remember here is that most kayak owners  
simply enjoy kayaking as a recreation. Plain simple fun, relaxation and  enjoyment. 
Sometimes we get to technical and forget kayaking is fun and appeals  to many 
in the masses. As such we have a vast cross section of society and  numerous 
kinds of craft. It's ok to have a plastic kayak, it's ok to have a  folder, 
inflatable or whatever if it works for YOU!.
 
 You don't have to have a 5,000 dollar kayak and ten grand in add on's  to 
enjoy the sport. It's nice to know about all that and what others are doing  but 
if all you have is a plastic 9 ft sit on top.. your still a kayaker. We  
should never alienate any of those categories, but welcome them all with a  smile. 
I learn something from each and every one and hope our sport/hobby  continues 
to grow and be popular. It's all about having fun! It's about the  adventure, 
the sharing and experience. Kayaks-gotta luv em!
 
Chuck
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From: Tord Eriksson <tord_at_tord.nu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] health issues and procreation
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 21:23:52 +0100
On Saturday 18 November 2006 19:38, Chuck wrote:
> I think the important thing to remember here is that most kayak owners
> simply enjoy kayaking as a recreation. Plain simple fun, relaxation and 
> enjoyment. Sometimes we get to technical and forget kayaking is fun and
> appeals  to many in the masses. As such we have a vast cross section of
> society and  numerous kinds of craft. It's ok to have a plastic kayak,
> it's ok to have a  folder, inflatable or whatever if it works for YOU!.

Yeah, a hard shell would be just impossible, living as we do!
 
>  You don't have to have a 5,000 dollar kayak and ten grand in add on's 
> to enjoy the sport. It's nice to know about all that and what others are
> doing  but if all you have is a plastic 9 ft sit on top.. your still a
> kayaker. We should never alienate any of those categories, but welcome
> them all with a  smile. I learn something from each and every one and
> hope our sport/hobby  continues to grow and be popular. It's all about
> having fun! It's about the  adventure, the sharing and experience.
> Kayaks-gotta luv em!

Indeed, indeed! 

My first, a Seahawk, cost me about $100 :-)!

Tord
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From: Don Margiano <donjm_at_earthlink.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] health issues and procreation
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:12:13 -0500
Tord wrote:

>Even though I am a liberal at heart, no kids, I'm quite conservative in 
>some respects. Don, I think you're talking a lot of sense, as before the 
>cheapo plastic kayaks arrived in force, kayaking was very much a sport 
>for a select group! Canoes were cheaper and more accepted, and an 
>Eskimo roll was something very suspect - and the press was usually
>there to witness it.

Todd,

First I'd like to say what a great response.  You have made
many good and logical points.  My post was somewhat narrow
in the fact that I wasn't considering the sport globally.  I
expected to get a couple of responses to my post debating
it's merit or debating mine. :>

" I am a liberal at heart, no kids, I'm quite conservative in 
some respects" -  I believe most people of good conscious and
intelligence are liberal at heart.  Most or all Sea Kayakers I
know love the sport, partly, because it connects us with nature 
in a very unique way.  This "connection" only promotes good
will towards people and our planet.  It also angers many of us
when we witness pollution and other environmental destruction.

Where I live in the USA(Connecticut), we have a wonderful
selection of places and conditions to paddle and a few
great organizations and clubs, such as Connyak.org, who 
promote the sport, safety, and too many other positive things
to mention here.  I'm also lucky enough to live somewhere
that I don't worry about theft.  50% of the time my kayak is
on the roof of my truck or just sitting in my yard unlocked. 
We hear the occasional story of a theft and I wouldn't travel
outside of this state without the boat locked down to my roof.

I'm going to read your message a few more times.  Your analysis
of your country's demographics is fascinating.  I hope to see
it (and paddle it) someday.

Don
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From: Tord Eriksson <tord_at_tord.nu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] health issues and procreation
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:51:25 +0100
On Sunday 19 November 2006 15:25, Don wrote:
> I'm going to read your message a few more times.  Your analysis
> of your country's demographics is fascinating.  I hope to see
> it (and paddle it) someday.


We have a wonderful, at times very craggy, coastline, with next to nil 
tides! A bit like Maine, minus the tides :-)!

We also have lots of lakes to paddle, and there are very few regulations 
about where you can paddle, or camp. 

For one night you can camp just about anywhere, except in someone's 
garden, and you may use twigs and dead branches to make up fires,
for that one night! You may pick berries in any forest or bog, or 
mushrooms, but you are not allowed to cross fields with cereals, 
or other products, growing on them! In National parks the rules are 
sometimes much stricter, as in reservations - just as it is in the US!

Fishing and hunting rights goes with the owner of the land, though!

Except on the West Coast and a few other places, where it's free!

The northern part of Sweden is a bit like Alaska, with mountain ranges, 
bogs, trees, bears (Eurpean vesion of Grizzly), and mosquitoes aplenty! 

There are tens of thousands of lakes to paddle, there are lots of rivers, 
and one hell of a long coastline, with thousands upon thousands of islands 
of various sizes! Some very private, though, and some nature reserves.

Sweden of today is in many ways like any other modern country,
with lots of jobs for the wellpaid and very few for the poor. 
About 3,000 manual jobs disappear overseas each year - much 
production moving to China, of course - and the new ones are 
seldom in the industry sector. Sounds like the US, on a small scale, eh?!

By all means pay us a visit - it is quite a changed world around here,
since my childhood days. For instance, then there were maybe two 
coloured people in town (a bit over half a million people lives here), 
and then there were about nil Moslems.

Today's Gothenburg is a bit like New York City, lots of immigrants,
and a mosque, or two: heaps of Africans, thousands of people from 
former Eastern Europe,  and many thousands of Iraqi and Iranians.
Almost all travelling on buses and trams are unemployed, retired, kids, or 
immigrants. 

The coloured in town when I was a kid were one, or two, students from 
Africa, or the Caribean, here on a grant, or Viet Nam vets, or draft 
dodgers. That was it! Now a number of my colleages are coloured,
mostly refugees from Somaila, a third are from Asia, and the rest a 
mixture of (former) Yugoslavs and Swedes!

And we got more here in town:

The traffic jams are huge at times, just as in NYC, and you're lucky if 
your cab driver understands Swedish, or English!

Most hospitals are still run by the community, or state, while almost all
dentists, and vetrinarians, are private, so going to the dentist can cost a 
bit, and even more so if your dog needs an operation!

Schools are nowadays a mix of community and private, as is the care of the
elderly and infirm.

The official retiring age is climbing, while the factual retirement age in 
my branch is now lower than before, as people are more worn out, than a 
generation before. The experts tell us that the retirees now have it 
better in every way than either the generation before, or the generation 
after (= mine), will ever have!

So, as in any country, it is a mixed bag, but the majority still speaks
Swedish! Most speak, or at least understand, some English, as it
has been compulsory in school since the '40s, and no films, or tv-programs,
are dubbed, all are subtitled (except those for the smallest kids, like
animated films - which are shown in cinemas both dubbed and subtitled)!

Climate around here, on the West Coast is a bit like Scotland, fairly wet, 
while in the extreme north it is very dry and cold (still thousands of 
mosquitoes and worse in summertime - say middle June to late August, if 
you're lucky)!

Better stop, time for bed, 

Night all,

Tord

PS Never done any paddling in Connecticut, just driving!
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