Apologies for posting this again, I'm travelling and with an unfamiliar operating system so the first message had no title and would therefore have been filtered out by many systems. G'Day, Craig wondered if Andrew was suffering the effects of dehydration. It was a speculation that surfaced soon after the accident was reported but the evidence simply doesn't support it. Peter Treby suggests two points 1) that there was plenty of fresh desalinated water 2) It would have taken a reasonable level of organisation and discipline to ensure that supply. Additional points are: 3. the distances he was paddling. It is highly unlikely that even a somewhat dehydrated medium weight paddler would have been able to cover those distances. If he was dehydrated to the point of confusion this would have surely been impossible. 4) The records of Andrews messages and conversations show no sign of confusion. This includes his last messages. Regarding Andrew's distress message. There used to be an anachronism in the distress protocol in Australia that said you only use the call "Mayday Mayday Mayday" if your boat is sinking or the engine is totally disabled. For all other emergencies the correct protocol is "Pan Pan Pan". This may have changed recently but I'm not aware of it. Such a protocol is not well suited for kayaks. So It's puzzling that the distress call didn't include the words "Mayday Mayday Mayday". He may have called Mayday earlier in a part of the transmission that did not get through, it was a very weak signal. This plus the fact that his rear cockpit was flooding would make the message "my kayak is sinking" quite reasonable. Matt suggested that Andrew had already been separated from the boat before making his distress call and that is certainly possible. The points that seem to suggest he may have been with the boat are, the change in signal strength before the last words in his distress call "its gone". This would be consistent with an aerial losing height as Andrew fell back into the sea. There's also the question over why Andrew would have the VHF but not the EPIRB. Questions Matt's description of how easy it is to separate from the boat rings in my ears. Bearing in mind that one doesn't impose requirements on anybody but in terms of trying to maximise safety when paddling alone at sea what do paddlewisers think of the following: - Distress Call question Doug's point to keep repeating the distress call is well made and I would advocate that kayakers break the Mayday vs Pan rule and call Mayday from the start of a distress call for a life threatening situation. This could be a point of debate. My navy friends have said call Pan first then Mayday. Whatever the distress call I'd repeat it at the start of every response to the coastguard if possible. What do others think? Tether when alone at sea question What do people think about alway wearing a tether when paddling alone at sea and what kind of tether. I take Doug's point and two of the most experienced paddlers in our club also say that it should be optional. But after Andrew's accident I'm not so sure that its wise for it to be taken off? And how to set up a permanent tether that isn't also a hazard? EPIRB when alone at sea question If trying to optimise safety would you always wear an EPIRB tethered to the PFD? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote: >>>>>I was struck by the fact that Andrew reported over the radio that his kayak was sinking when it was found floating. One wouldn't think that an experienced paddler would believe his kayak was sinking when, in fact, it wasn't.<<<<<< The unidentified kayak that may have been an Old Town Loon was found floating however had it been occupied it would have certainly been sinking. Andrew may have had to get into the water to stop his kayak from filling further while trying to make repairs or correct the situation somehow and call for help. It also seems likely to me from the distress call description that he may have lost touch with his kayak and then been unable to swim as fast as it was blowing away. That is not an uncommon experience for those who end up in the water in a strong wind. Once my friend (of no PFD, great self-rescues skills, and big trip fame) and I were practicing in some very strong winds. He was in the water and said: "I wonder what happens if I let go of the kayak" He took his hand a bit away from the coaming for just an instant and his kayak was out of his reach and blowing away at least twice as fast as he could swim after it. It was a chase for me to get to it, paddling it down with my kayak. It just takes a second of inattention to loose your life raft" if you are solo--or even if with other paddlers not equipped (mentally, physically or equipment wise) to run it down and bring it back. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt said (snip): > floating however had it been occupied it would have certainly been > sinking. > Andrew may have had to get into the water to stop his kayak from filling > further while trying to make repairs or correct the situation somehow and > call for help. It also seems likely to me from the distress call > description > that he may have lost touch with his kayak and then been unable to swim as > fast as it was blowing away. That is not an uncommon experience for those > who end up in the water in a strong wind. I prefer a quick release tether for long crossings. If one needs to be in and out of the water purposely for some reason removing gear, making repairs or getting on a wetsuit or whatever, you need to work out a redundant attachment system if the main belt is off, maybe a point of contact temporarily for the free limb. Usually, an adequately and well tested paddle leash will keep you and your boat connected in moderate seas if you don't let go of the paddle after a wet exit. Some leashes can't take the stress. Some leashes get used to secure the paddlefloat to the paddle, leaving you vulnerable if the float/paddle separates from the boat and that is all you are holding on to (the paddle). An experiment in breaking seas suggests more than just the wind can jolt the boat away from you during an in-water event. Andrew's predicament was a bit more unique, certainly more extreme we assume. Tethers (both lifeline and paddle leashes) can be left unattached and out of the way, employed only if conditions warrant their use for those who find using them by default full time too annoying. VHF radios can benefit from a short tether or snag free clip on the end of the lanyard. Once on the radio trying to communicate a verifiable distress situation, repeat your level of distress three times on high output, identify your name and situation and position if able. Be prepared to have to repeat this information audibly and forcefully. Don't give up if you think you have not been heard. You don't know that for sure. If communication is difficult, hit the call button at short intervals regularly. If you have relayed a Mayday and things are unraveling quickly and communication clarity is suspect, why not set off your EPIRB? You've lost control of the situation probably anyway. Be prepared to take care of yourself for some time depending where you are and response times. Cold water robs dexterity. Move quickly to finish initial tasks. Rescue personal may still need some way to spot you once in the area. Plan for that too. A flooded compartment can be pumped out with a manual pump if the hull is sound and the hatch has come loose for whatever reason. I like to tether my hatch covers too. I have been in a real-life rescue event where a rear hatch had to be opened in rough seas to retrieve essential gear. After that incident, I added pumping-out practice for my fore and after compartments. Even with gear in them, certain water volumes can make you kayak difficult to navigate. Some folks are prone to panic and muddled thinking during a crisis. Practice and playing-out life-like scenarios may be the only thing to mitigate those natural tendencies when something does go wrong. Oh, and thanks to Peter fro taking the time to present to us some facts about Andrew's incident, as well as clearly identifying the speculative aspects without exaggerations. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Peter for following up so steadfastly with details of Andrew's incident, and for identifying factual information while clearly indicating where any speculation occurred while also keeping the topic free from exaggeration. The dehydration question was worth considering as something to rule out. Hydration and nutrition are always something to review when determining what went wrong during voyage of longer duration. This didn't sound like an issue with Andrew, other than the need to retrieve supplies in an unorthodox manner. > Distress Call question > > Doug's point to keep repeating the distress call is well made and I would > advocate that kayakers break the Mayday vs. Pan rule and call Mayday from > the start of a distress call for a life threatening situation. This could > be a point of debate. My navy friends have said call Pan first then > Mayday. > Whatever the distress call I'd repeat it at the start of every response to > the coastguard if possible. What do others think? You didn't get much response on this question. The urgency in the Mayday vs. Pan guidelines is one easily answerable for an aircraft pilot: You are having an engine problem with one of your two engines, you Pan for priority consideration. If your aircraft just lost rudder control and altitude is rapidly dwindling, Mayday is an obvious, urgent response to the situation. Vessels at sea suffer a slower fate, usually, though some do sink awfully fast after some causative effect. A Pan Pan will be responded to and often you will be redirected to 22Alpha to continue the conversation ("I ran out of gas."), leaving the finite resource of 16 open for other emergencies, I believe. Depends who responds to you given how remote your location. When my two friends and I called in a rescue off the Storm Islands a few years back, we should have done a Pan Pan. I was very upset that we went Mayday. We were in some significant distress: one paddler was in a declining hypothermia regime, the other paddler's kayak had split seams and was taking on water, increasing his heat loss and frustration with our ability to make landfall. Other than that, we were unable to make that progress toward land given the strong net ebb, but weren't in immediate danger in my mind. The situation was deteriorating, but not exponentially. In the end, the triple Mayday eventually solicited the certain help we eventually would have needed no matter what. Night was approaching, and time was of the essence. What was said, how it was communicated, what protocols were or were not followed didn't matter much. The CG were glad we called as early as we did. The fine for a false Mayday is less than for using foul language over VHF channels I believe, and we did lots of swearing trying to get the CG to understand our situation (turns out the CG kept repeating their questions so as to verify our position and determine immediate threats to life). I'd say Andrew's Mayday was appropriate. A self-rescue in difficult seas, perhaps one undergoing multiple failure, surly rates as genuinely urgent. Get out as much information as you can in that first broadcast, speaking clearly, with force, and keep it succinct especially if in deep swell shadows. Keep repeating if able. Identify the number in your party. While many of us seem to have been demoted from citizen to taxpayer in modern democracies, utilizing the state's rescue resource doesn't seem disrespectful. Yes, you will probably suffer an ignoble fate media wise, but you live to fight another day. I imagine if Andrew had achieved a successful outside rescue, discussion in the paddling community would have been, to say the least, interesting. I wish the latter had come to pass as the only negative consequence to the crossing attempt. > Questions > > Matt's description of how easy it is to separate from the boat rings in my > ears. Bearing in mind that one doesn't impose requirements on anybody but > in terms of trying to maximise safety when paddling alone at sea what do > paddlewisers think of the following: - > > Distress Call question > > Doug's point to keep repeating the distress call is well made and I would > advocate that kayakers break the Mayday vs Pan rule and call Mayday from > the start of a distress call for a life threatening situation. This could > be a point of debate. My navy friends have said call Pan first then > Mayday. > Whatever the distress call I'd repeat it at the start of every response to > the coastguard if possible. What do others think? Yeah, if you are out in relatively begnin seas and having problems with your paddlefloat rescue after a wet exit (broke your paddle re-entering, now need to deploy your spare for another attempt), a Pan Pan might be in order. Out off the end of a wild headland, chances for self rescue doubtful, then sure, A mayday may be in order -- assuming this is your final backup plan. There are paddler's who accept their outcome free from reliance on the state. > Tether when alone at sea question > > What do people think about alway wearing a tether when paddling alone at > sea and what kind of tether. I take Doug's point and two of the most > experienced > paddlers in our club also say that it should be optional. But after > Andrew's > accident I'm not so sure that its wise for it to be taken off? And how to > set up a permanent tether that isn't also a hazard? Tethers? Why do we question tethers? Short of running a trailing line behing your boat that you might have a final chance of grabbing onto before your vessel blows out of sight or sails on for good leaving you adrift, tethers play a vital role for many deep water sailors. So the question is are tethers worthwile for paddlers in kayaks. Because there will always be an entaglement issue (which can rob precious moments of dexterity in an emergency during crucial momnets spent untangling, or even death from a fatal entanglement), tethers will always be an optional choice made individually. Most well trained/practiced paddlers are able to keep contact with their kayak post incident, even in rough seas. There are diminishing returns the longer you are in the water and the rougher it gets or the frequency of larger wave sets are considered. Which leads me to suspect Andrew was perhaps in a state of heightened fatigued or loosing strenght rapidy to eventually or suddenly loose contact with the kayak. If for some reason Andrew was undergoing failure at multiple attemps at re-entry, a teather would have allowed continued contact with the kayak, perhaps allowing insigation of the EPIRB. This is all specualtion of course. I use tethers as a back up to backups. I've been tagled up in one in cold water, and know the frustrations of using them. Chris Duff seems to have the most well-thought out person-to-boat tether. How well a tether would work with Andrew's need to move outside his vessel from time to time, or even put on more gear obviating the easy use of a teather, I don't know. Gets back to my other post about the inherent limitaions of typical kayaks for long crossings. > EPIRB when alone at sea question > > If trying to optimise safety would you always wear an EPIRB tethered to > the > PFD? I'm looking for a marine-use EPIRB for myself. Finding an affordable unit in a truly compact size for easy PFD inclusion has proven difficult at this time. I think if I ever attempted something like Andrew did, I'd carry a small backup raft with an EPIRB attached. I gave Andrew a 60/40 chance of making his crossing when it was originally alertened to us here on Paddlewise. I thought he'd need outside rescue for that 40% - I didn't really think he would expire like he did so close to his objective. I wanted to do a dangerous crossing a few years ago with a friend, after giving up the idea of going solo. He is a very competent paddler - both then and now. He said he would do it, but only with a chase boat (we would have needed a deep-water Zodiac). The cost would have been exorbitant, but especially it would have diluted the purity, challenge, and style of the trip completely (paddling with assistance avaliable close at hand). The trip never happened. There are a number of things Andrew could have done to mitigate the risks further. He made his choices and had to live (and die) with those same choices. He should have understood the ultimate consequences and possible need for outside rescue. In the end, he suffered far more than he thought he would have to, I believe. He did indeed call for assistance we believe. His modus operandi was what it was. In my own thinking, Andrew was not succesful. The crossing failed. That he almost made it doesn't count, though it may encourage others to tweek their approach and gear and re-attempt the crossing. And his attempt did redefine the possibilities, while demonstrating Andrew's drive to achive the seemingly impossible. That he called for outside assistance, is unfortunate, but understandable. No; in my mind Andrew's success was the way he was able to remain cohesive and positive, keep free from the undertow of panic, remain resolute and unconfused and organized through hours and hours of suffering as evidenced so far from the record. That differentiates the real success of Andrew's crossing attrempt, in as much as who and what he was as a man. Man's falability and frailty on the ocean has never been in question . Doug Lloyd (hoping I'm not using up too much bandwidth lately) Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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