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From: James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm>
subject: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:46:39 -0500
This is from Chicago magazine:

http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=8642F5EFCEA14A939100AB7214F31861&nm=Archives&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=4&id=2877A76E2DE44877BC72636F4D779EE7


Jim Tibensky
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 09:36:09 -0700
That is probably the best-written account of a kayak trip, paddlers'
mentality, and rescue I've ever read. Thanks, Jim.

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA

On 4/2/07, James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> This is from Chicago magazine:
>
>
> http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=8642F5EFCEA14A939100AB7214F31861&nm=Archives&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=4&id=2877A76E2DE44877BC72636F4D779EE7
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From: mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:48:54 -0400 (EDT)
Yes, I agree it is a very well written account especially for a non padder
publication. Thanks Jim.

But I wish they had given the day of forecast for south lake Michigan and
their reasoning for taking off on a fifty miler that particular day. I
like to do my great lakes crossings in July mainly because any amount of
side chop, overtime translates into a huge energy drain.

I like to keep track of predicted wave heights and actual lake surface
conditions as a data base to draw on when it comes time to make the go no
go decision. I'm disappointed but not surprised that the wave heights as
discribed by the participants appear to be exaggerated.
It's possible to review conditions for that day at the south Lake Michigan
bouy at:
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_text_file.php?filename=45007h2006.txt.gz&dir=data/historical/stdmet

It appears significant wave height for that evening around 7-8pm was
slowly building to 4 to 4.5 feet with about 20-25 knot winds.

No doubt they were in some bad conditions for a crossing of that length
and had some very unfortunate gear failure but I wish these accounts would
not exaggerate sea state conditions. It throws my correlations way off.
-mike

> That is probably the best-written account of a kayak trip, paddlers'
> mentality, and rescue I've ever read. Thanks, Jim.
>
> Craig Jungers
> Royal City, WA
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:26:58 -0700
Agreed Craig - very well written. I like to do a leak test on my kayak at 
least once a year with mild air pressure and a soap solution (bubbles form 
if there are leaks). Boat leaks, boat no float, boat no good. It's a simple 
mantra. Anyway, I'm sticking with my small hatches.




> That is probably the best-written account of a kayak trip, paddlers'
> mentality, and rescue I've ever read. Thanks, Jim.
>
> Craig Jungers
> Royal City, WA
>
> On 4/2/07, James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> This is from Chicago magazine:
>>
>>
>> http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=8642F5EFCEA14A939100AB7214F31861&nm=Archives&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=4&id=2877A76E2DE44877BC72636F4D779EE7
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From: mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:56:39 -0400 (EDT)
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply
including old headers and footers.  It's list policy.... 
this post was modified to meet policy]

> Doug Lloyed commented
> Agreed Craig - very well written. I like to do a leak test on my kayak at
> least once a year with mild air pressure and a soap solution (bubbles form
> if there are leaks). Boat leaks, boat no float, boat no good. It's a
> simple mantra. Anyway, I'm sticking with my small hatches.

>> On 4/2/07, James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=8642F5EFCEA14A939100AB7214F31861&nm=Archives&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=4&id=2877A76E2DE44877BC72636F4D779EE7

Does anyone know the specifics on that leak? Where, cause, etc?
-mike

-- 
mike Dziobak
Dept of Civil and Environmental Engineering
Michigan Technological University
1400 Townsend Dr.
870 Dow Bldg.
Houghton, MI 49931
 Tel:906-487-3471
Fax:906-487-2943
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:11:56 -0700
Mike, I phoned Sharon at Columbia College (she's also a freelance writer) 
but she wasn't in. I'll try emailing her. If that doesn't work, I'll trake 
down Mike or Paul. I'd like to know why the water enetered the rear hatch 
and was also reported in the cockpit.

To quote the article:

Just then, a large wave crashed over the two boats and nearly filled Mike's 
back hatch completely. The Epic has a very large back hatch-about eight 
cubic feet. A cubic foot of water weighs just over 62 pounds. That means the 
back of Mike's boat now held several hundred pounds of water, and his 
cockpit was filling up, too. "That was the first time I felt this could 
really suck," Mike recalls. "I felt myself start to sink."

I think the writer got the volume of the rear compartment confused with the 
rear hatch size, but most of us know what she meant.

Werner Stoltz did a 1740 km circumnavigation of Ireland, solo, using an Epic 
Endurance 18 in 2005 I think. He went on to more challenges with the same 
boat, so must have been happy.

One of the on-line boat reviews said in 2 to 3 foot seas, there were no 
leaks.

I vcan't find my Sea Kayaker review, but I do remenber something about a 
leak in the older models. I'll have to verify that.

I'll let you know what I come up with unless someone has first hand 
information.

Doug Lloyd

>> Doug Lloyed commented
>> Agreed Craig - very well written. I like to do a leak test on my kayak at
>> least once a year with mild air pressure and a soap solution (bubbles 
>> form
>> if there are leaks). Boat leaks, boat no float, boat no good. It's a
>> simple mantra. Anyway, I'm sticking with my small hatches.
>
>>> On 4/2/07, James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>> http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=8642F5EFCEA14A939100AB7214F31861&nm=Archives&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=4&id=2877A76E2DE44877BC72636F4D779EE7
>
> Does anyone know the specifics on that leak? Where, cause, etc?
> -mike
>
> -- 
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From: Gordin Warner <gwarner2_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:09:00 -0700
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply

this post was modified to meet policy]

Craig's bang on. This was a very refreshing read.

Gordin Warner

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Jungers" <crjungers_at_gmail.com>

> That is probably the best-written account of a kayak trip, paddlers'
> mentality, and rescue I've ever read. Thanks, Jim.
>
> On 4/2/07, James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> This is from Chicago magazine:
>>
>> http://www.chicagomag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=8642F5EFCEA14A939100AB7214F31861&nm=Archives&type=PubPagi&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle+Title&mid=61BFC65300D24DB58350C761094153A1&tier=4&id=2877A76E2DE44877BC72636F4D779EE7
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From: mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu>
subject: re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:21:17 -0400 (EDT)
Ooops, I need to print a retraction. I made an error in converting UTC to
CDT when I said the wave hts that day were about 4-4.5' at the South lake
Mich bouy. It was pointed out to me back channel thatfrom 7pm to 8pm CDT
the wave hts from the data file were 7.4 to 7.7 feet. So it appears the
hts reported in the article are pretty close, 6-8' and then 10'. I'm very
sorry for the misrepresentation.
-mike
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Michigan Crossing Article
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:04:22 -0700
Mike, I guess Michigan Lake has significant fetch on a northerly or nor'easter 
wind. Buoy 45007 is north of where the incident took place. Sharon said that 
waves are typically bigger closer to shore (south of the buoy) and that 
there is a time delay when comparing wave heights near shore to the further 
upwind (in this case) buoy. She felt the two paddlers were fairly accurate 
in their guestimates (let's face it, that's usually the case - a 
guestimate), especially given the Chicago Police marine unit reported 
similar wave heights.  I think she rounded up to 10 feet in part of here 
subjective comments, which may have been slightly higher than fact, although 
we all know the odd wave set can be a little higher than the average 
significant wave height. Sounds like she did her homework. Still, not a bad 
job, given she didn't appear to be a paddler or knowledgeable with respect 
to marine navigation experience.



I'll see if the two fellows have anything to say about the leak issue. I 
know for me, as crazy a paddler as I seem, there are three fundamental 
considerations to a safe paddle I look at seriously. They arbitrarily 
include the paddler, the boat, and navigation. Sounds like the boat part and 
the navigation part may have been compromised for the crossing attempt. I'll 
often compromise the navigation part in the interest of  finding a challenge 
close to my thresholds or slightly more in - staged degrees.



Doug L





> Ooops, I need to print a retraction. I made an error in converting UTC to
> CDT when I said the wave hts that day were about 4-4.5' at the South lake
> Mich bouy. It was pointed out to me back channel thatfrom 7pm to 8pm CDT
> the wave hts from the data file were 7.4 to 7.7 feet. So it appears the
> hts reported in the article are pretty close, 6-8' and then 10'. I'm very
> sorry for the misrepresentation.
> -mike
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