http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/homepage/x1689350607 "Boston - Kayakers today opposed a bill that would require all students taking kayak instruction to first be trained on how to pull themselves out of water when their kayaks flip over." "Filed by Rep. William Straus (D- Mattapoisett) on behalf of a constituent whose husband died in a kayak accident during a training course, the bill faced opposition in the last legislative session because opponents said it would put some people out of business, said Sen. Jarrett Barrios (D-Cambridge), co-chair of the Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security. " Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The concerns that were raised, honestly, I never really understood them, said Straus. Straus said his bill would require that kayaking students know how to get out of an overturned kayak before they go into any water deeper than five feet. Res ipsa loquitur. I always make students do a wet exit before they do anything else, but i teach in Georgia, not Massachusetts. Steve -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 6/7/07, Steve Cramer <cramersec_at_charter.net> wrote: The concerns that were raised, honestly, I never really understood them, said Straus. Straus said his bill would require that kayaking students know how to get out of an overturned kayak before they go into any water deeper than five feet. Res ipsa loquitur. I always make students do a wet exit before they do anything else, but i teach in Georgia, not Massachusetts. I had always required that anyone doing even a mild white water trip with us practice a wet exit in front of the lake house in water that isn't too uncomfortable. First we have them close their eyes and go through the motions while sitting safely on the dock in the kayak. Then it's into the water and... well... into the water. We give newbie flat-water paddlers the Loon; if you can't get out of that then bathtubs would be too much for you. We seldom take anyone else with us on salt water or big water so it has not ever been an issue but I would lean towards requiring them to swim out at least once. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:31 PM 6/7/2007, Steve Cramer wrote: >The concerns that were raised, honestly, I never really understood >them,said Straus. Straus said his bill would require that kayaking >students know how to get out of an overturned kayak before they go >into any water deeper than five feet. > >Res ipsa loquitur. > >I always make students do a wet exit before they do anything else, >but i teach in Georgia, not Massachusetts. A university related outdoor group/club I help out with on occasion requires anyone new to club to demonstrate a two calm and controlled wet exits the first time they want to use one of the clubs kayaks (typically at a weekly pre-meeting paddle on a small reservoir on campus). I've helped out at the beginning of the semesters many times as a wet exit "witness". After listening to a brief set of instructions they are asked to do a wet exit (with sprayskirt attached) while a witness stands next to their boat. If I see someone out of their boat practically before they're upside down I'll make them do it again. Once someone has demonstrated two wet exits to the witnesses satisfaction they are given a paddle. I think that a performing a wet exit very early on in a instructional class is a very good idea. I've seen people panic when they've capsized unintentionally, but when someone has gone through a wet exit after an intentional capsize they are almost always much calmer and controlled during the wet exit the first time they've capsized unintentionally. Making it mandatory through legislation is another issue. jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- cramersec_at_charter.net wrote: The concerns that were raised, honestly, I never really understood them, said Straus. Straus said his bill would require that kayaking students know how to get out of an overturned kayak before they go into any water deeper than five feet. A friend of mine, a local writer, took a beginner kayaking class a couple of years back as part of a story assignment. The first thing the class learned to do was wet exit. Then they were taken directly into surf without further instruction. She wrote an article about the rollicking afternoon she spent capsizing in breakers to the point of exhaustion, holding her breath, praying she wouldnbt die and finally being slammed by another kayak in the group...paddled by the alleged instructor trying to rescue her. Yes, she learned how to wet-exit. It was the ONLY thing she learned. Do we mandate everything else, too? I won't debate the issue itself (there are far more of you more qualified to do so), but rather the haste with which legislators file kayaking bills at the request of a single constituent. While wet-exit training may or may not have saved Mr. Beauvais, his widowbs assertion that his death was directly caused by a b mishandlingb of his class, and that when he capsized b There was no one around to immediately help him and he panickedb is an oversimplification. Rather than simply accepting the premise that the victim died because he couldnbt wet exit, Rep. Strauss, had he spent a few minutes in the local newspaperbs archives, would have learned that the case is a little more complicated. The victim did not die underwater or alone. A critical care nurse (also in the class) jumped in and held his head above water while the instructor tried to tow them. In a follow-up interview with the local paper she said, b He was awake. I thought he was going to be OK," but he stopped breathing about five minutes later. She performed mouth-to-mouth. The same paper, the day after the accident, described Mr. Beauvais as having "a history of asthma." Were I a legislator who had done some homework, Ibm not sure I would have been so quick to slap this restriction on the whole paddling community. Massachusetts has a rich history of ill-considered legislative filings...this is the state that wanted to make paddlers mount bright orange flags (with wobbly fiberglass poles, the kind you see on kidsb tricycles) on all kayaks to improve their visibility. Not so good for a roll, perhaps, but at least youbll track straight during the wet-exit. Caryl _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've been watching this thread closely and find myself nodding agreement at virtually all the points. Legislators will forever be trying to pass laws limiting exposure to danger just because that's what they think the public wants and that gets them re-elected. It's second nature to a bureaucrat to write a new regulation as a knee-jerk reaction to almost any negative situation. That's how you fix things, isn't it? Write a new rule? I think there are two givens: 1. It would be ideal if every paddler in every kayak knew how to wet exit and had practiced it more than once; and, 2. This is not going to happen. It's not going to happen for a bucketful of reasons. Not the least of which is that no one, certainly not me, wants to get wet and cold and tired and *then* go out and paddle. I'm willing to bet that if you take the average new paddler out onto cold water on a cold day and ask him or her if they know how to wet exit they'll look you straight in the eye and lie. Like someone said, most of them don't even want to get their feet wet, let alone swim out. It's just unfortunate that the very tendency of a kayak to capsize is the one thing that makes them the most fun to paddle. A completely stable kayak would be about as much fun to paddle as a dock. Fortunately most kayaks manage to combine stability and instability so that, really, most of the time they stay upright. But almost every kayak with a person seated in it will be at its most stable when it's inverted. So we all deal with this trait as best we can because it's not going to change. Neither is human nature. Since almost all of us at one time or another takes newbies out in a kayak we all have to make some sort of judgement call as to what sort of preliminary indoctrination to give them. And there must be a zillion variables. Will we be paddling on a small inland lake or an open bay? What's the weather likely to be? Is the water warm or cold? Is the newbie adventurous or timid? Does (s)he have any medical problems? Does (s)he have any psychological problems? I'm thinking of a simple way of distilling all the variables into one rule: If you want them to wear a spray skirt then you should think seriously about having them practice a wet exit. If they aren't wearing a spray skirt then, really, 90% of the problem of swimming out is eliminated; without a spray skirt if the boat turns over almost everyone will just swim out. I have a big open-cockpit Loon that I put all first-timers in. It doesn't even have a spray skirt and if it did it would be 4 feet long. Trust me, no one has ever had a problem getting out of that Loon. Kayaks paddle just fine without a spray skirt and on a nice day the worst that will happen is that drops from the paddle will cool off their knees. In fact, most newbies would much prefer to paddle without a spray skirt. For one thing, they can get at their binoculars, cameras and water bottles a lot easier. If weather or water conditions make you think that paddling without a spray skirt would be an issue, then tuck 'em in but make sure they know how to get out. Doug Lloyd wrote what I consider to be the definitive article on entrapment. You can read it at: http://www.seakayakermag.com/2003/03April/ Entrapment/Entrapment_01.htm.<http://www.seakayakermag.com/2003/03April/Entrapment/Entrapment_01.htm> Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: >I think there are two givens: > >1. It would be ideal if every paddler in every kayak knew how to wet exit >and had practiced it more than once; and, > >2. This is not going to happen. > All this angst can be resolved by paddling sit-on-tops :-) Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Myers wrote: > > All this angst can be resolved by paddling sit-on-tops :-) If it's warm enough/you're dressed warm enough for a sit-on-top, it's warm enough to do a wet exit. ;) Steve -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote: > Jackie Myers wrote: > >> >> All this angst can be resolved by paddling sit-on-tops :-) > > > If it's warm enough/you're dressed warm enough for a sit-on-top, it's > warm enough to do a wet exit. ;) > > Steve Warm weather?!? Who said anything about warm weather?? Image http://www.capemaybeach.com/ice1.jpg For more about kayaking with icebergs in a sit-on-top..... http://www.capemaybeach.org/icepaddle.html Kayaker William McArthur doesn't need no stinkin' warm weather, thank you very much! As for those that spend all their time *in* the water as opposed to on an open boat: "Narragansett, Rhode Island- Air and ocean water temperatures could not have been better for 38th Annual New England Mid Winter Surfing Championships, held today, at the Narragansett Town Beach. 30-40 knot northwest blasts cut the wind chill to slightly below zero, and the ocean water temperature of 32 degrees, added to the overall cold factor. There were occasional snow flurries that fell during the final heats." http://www.nesurfari.com/blog/2006/02/19/more-on-the-midwinter-championships/#more-571 whimper...... Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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