Hello I have been pondering the use of the following product as a storm caige. This guy is selling a full length poncho made from tyvek. I could shorten it to the appropriate length. The idea is that it would be kept in the day hatch and used as an extra layer if required. It would be loose fitting, so you could just pull it on overtop. Thoughts? The fabric used is "Tyvek. 1460uv" Does anybody know what happens to this fabric does when submurged in water? http://www.goodlingoutdoor.com/Poncho.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Derek, It's fine when submerged, you can wash it in the washing machine w/o soap a few times to soften it and make it less noisy. But since his is dyed, it looks like it might be softened some already. BUT - I would be concerned about a drowning hazard when in the water. I have a silnylon poncho that I like real well for hiking in the rain here in Florida where the temp is warm and I need the veltilation. I took my poncho with me in the day hatch as I paddled the canal in the back yard. A shower passed so I smugly put the poncho on over my pfd and spray skirt and all. Granted I didn't cut it down as I want to hike with it. But seeing how the material floated in the water and it had a mind of it's own made me take it off right away. I could easily see the poncho invert over my head, and since it would be coming from all sides it could be a while before I found my way out of the entanglement. And being water proof, it is also breath proof. I would only use something that was form fitting that you know would stay out of your face while swimming. To me that means either a real heavy material that you'll be able to feel your way out of, and I don't really like that idea either, or a form fitting paddling top that you can swim in. Preferably the latter. I could see making a paddling jacket out of silnylon and custom sizing it to fit over my PFD, with elastic on the bottom so it would cinch up below the PFD and stay out of my face while swimming. Sleeves long or short as you see fit. So, if you were going to cut the Tyvek down, make sure it will stay out of your face somehow. Any probably doesn't count. Since it has a zipper, if you make it fit you snugly it might be OK. But do test it out in a pool or beach in shallow water with a buddy standing in waist deep water to sort you out if needed. Cheers, Carey The fabric used is "Tyvek. 1460uv" Does anybody know what happens to this fabric does when submurged in water? http://www.goodlingoutdoor.com/Poncho.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I could easily see the poncho invert over my head, and since > it would be coming from all sides it could be a while before I found my way > out of the entanglement. And being water proof, it is also breath proof. > > I would only use something that was form fitting that you know would stay > out of your face while swimming. To me that means either a real heavy > material that you'll be able to feel your way out of, and I don't really > like that idea either, or a form fitting paddling top that you can swim in. Regular rain jacket - one of those $30-35 with sleeves, PVC-coated nylon) with zipper and buttons fits this criteria too. It won't invert over your head, and if it has buttons, you can keep the lower part open, with flaps around your waist. Those flaps (usually with pockets) interfere with paddling strokes, but not much. Most of them have relaxed fit, and some you might need to buy one size larger to make it fit over the PFD. Non-breathable, but so is silnylon. Consider it a low-cost alternative to non-breathable paddle jacket. Works well for occasional unpredictable rain in low-intensity paddling or in moderate temps. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The fabric used is "Tyvek. 1460uv" Does anybody know > what happens to this fabric does when submurged in > water? > I thought Frogg Toggs rain gear was made of Tyvek. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I was looking at their web page, and they don't specify the brand name of the fabric. That said, their description of the fabric does look mysteriously like Tyvek. http://www.froggtoggs.com/technology.htm --- James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: > > > > The fabric used is "Tyvek. 1460uv" Does anybody > know > > what happens to this fabric does when submurged in > > water? > > > I thought Frogg Toggs rain gear was made of Tyvek. > --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Does anyone know if one side or the other should face out on Tyvek? Does it work the same either way? A 165' x 3' roll costs about $60 (logo included) or less than 10 cents a square foot. I wonder about layering it under a breathable fabric as well. It probably doesn't work as good as Goretex, but it seems like a cheap way to make some gear. Paul M ------------------- On Jun 10, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Derek wrote: > I was looking at their web page, and they don't > specify the brand name of the fabric. That said, > their description of the fabric does look mysteriously > like Tyvek. > > http://www.froggtoggs.com/technology.htm > > --- James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Google this one well. There have been lots of things mad eout of Tyvek. Doesn't work well for all. I only use it for ground sheets. I suspect that it is not actually water*proof* if you use it as an overhead. (You can also get the stuff in wide sheets--probably 12-16 feet wide.) GaryJ Paul Montgomery wrote: >Does anyone know if one side or the other should face out on Tyvek? >Does it work the same either way? A 165' x 3' roll costs about $60 >(logo included) or less than 10 cents a square foot. I wonder about >layering it under a breathable fabric as well. It probably doesn't >work as good as Goretex, but it seems like a cheap way to make some >gear. > >Paul M >---------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Does anyone know if one side or the other should face out on Tyvek? > Does it work the same either way? A 165' x 3' roll costs about $60 > (logo included) or less than 10 cents a square foot. I wonder about > layering it under a breathable fabric as well. It probably doesn't > work as good as Goretex, but it seems like a cheap way to make some > gear. > Paul M > ------------------- It's not a breathable material but rather a vapor barrier. That is what it is ordinarily sold as. Once, long ago, it was used to make those sleeves for 5 1/4 inch floppies. I don't know why. NY-NJ Trails Council in this area prints their excellent maps on Tyvek. Waterproof and tearproof. Lasts forever. Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joseph Pylka wrote: >> Does anyone know if one side or the other should face out on Tyvek? >> [snip] I wonder about layering it under a breathable fabric as well. >> It probably doesn't work as good as Goretex, but it seems like a cheap >> way to make some gear. Paul M > It's not a breathable material but rather a vapor barrier. That is what > it is ordinarily sold as. I've heard Tyvek described as a "vapor barrier" before, but I think that is very misleading language. Check out Wikipedia's piece on it, in which you will find: "Water vapor can pass through Tyvek, but not liquid water." It is more properly a _liquid_ barrier, inasmuch as it passes water vapor, but not water liquid. The Wiki citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyvek And, here's the language the manufacturer uses to describe its properties: "This unique balance of properties, which cannot be found in any other material, makes Tyvek. lightweight yet strong; __vapor-permeable__, yet water-, chemical-, puncture-, tear- and abrasion-resistant." Source: http://www.tyvek.com/whatistyvek.htm As far as its use for clothing: it does not last; it does not withstand repeated flexing nearly as well as materials designed for clothing. IIRC, its vapor transmission rate is much lower than Goretex. Finally, it makes no difference which side faces the liquid water, AFAIK. I believe you see it on houses with the logo out just because "that's the way we have always done it." -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > Joseph Pylka wrote: >> It's not a breathable material but rather a vapor barrier. That is what >> it is ordinarily sold as. > > I've heard Tyvek described as a "vapor barrier" before, but I think that > is very misleading language. In northern climes, if you put a vapour barrier on the outside of the house, the structure would become a mouldy pile of rotten wood. The vapour barrier (usually polyethylene) goes on the inside of the structural components and the house wrap (Tyvek or similar products) goes on the outside. It has to be breathable - the objective is to keep the insulation and structure dry and provide a windproof and water-resistant barrier on the outside. If Tyvek was a suitable product for outdoor gear to the extent some folks think, manufacturers would swarm to it. The fact that so few do should tell you everything about how appropriate it is as a material. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Almost a decade ago I was working in housing market research, and I spoke to the Tyvek manufacturer. I asked about using it for outdoor gear. They said that while they had a large number of people (other firms) testing it for other applications, they had not found any where it was a useful improvement. They said that some found it not all that useful as a ground sheet (I started using it around that time, and still do sometimes) or anything else. I do not know why, but presumably they believed it should be waterproof. The only non-building use these companies found and put into production was as windshield covers to keep snow and ice from building up on parked cars. GaryJ Michael Daly wrote: > Dave Kruger wrote: > >> Joseph Pylka wrote: >> >>> It's not a breathable material but rather a vapor barrier. That is >>> what >>> it is ordinarily sold as. >> >> >> I've heard Tyvek described as a "vapor barrier" before, but I think >> that is very misleading language. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One of the more economically creative paddlers in our area used to paddle in a Tyvek (at least I think he said Tyvek) suit made for painters. They were supposed to be disposable so were relatively cheap. I am sure there were durability issues, but he said he always was comfortable and dry. I never tried it. Mark J. Arnold > [Original Message] > From: Gary J. MacDonald <garyj_at_rogers.com> > To: Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com>; Paddlewise <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Date: 6/11/2007 19:12:18 > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Poncho as Storm Caige > > Google this one well. > There have been lots of things mad eout of Tyvek. Doesn't work well for > all. > I only use it for ground sheets. I suspect that it is not actually > water*proof* if you use it as an overhead. > (You can also get the stuff in wide sheets--probably 12-16 feet wide.) > GaryJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 6/9/07, Derek <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I have been pondering the use of the following product > as a storm caige. > I have, in my youth, been known to do things that were.... well, let's just say "inadvisable". Now that I'm mature (at least in years if not altogether in attitude) I have learned a few things. My wife would say, "very few". Never mind on that. But it never occurred to me to use a poncho (which I often used for hiking) on a kayak. The idea of paddling in crappy weather wearing a plastic poncho makes whatever hair I have left on the back of my neck stand up. Being light weight it would flap annoyingly in any kind of wind (this is being used in a storm, right?). And, unless it has arm holes, the poncho would expand to each side as one paddles. You know, arms up and out. Kinda like a sail. If you're going downwind it might be great. But almost any other direction and it would be a major hindrance. This position would also invite spray (remember it's a storm) onto the bits of your body exposed while your arms are up paddling and the loose-bottomed poncho opens invitingly to the elements. The storm cag that NRS is selling ( http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2267&deptid=947) isn't plastic, isn't cheap ($189), and isn't a poncho but certainly looks effective and safe in extreme weather. Now, once you've decided to get ashore in that storm and you're huddled on some isolated beach being pelted by wind-blown rain even a cheap plastic poncho might be a good idea. Under these conditions the open nature of the poncho means you can sit (hopefully somewhere dry) and tuck your entire body in. Craig Jungers Royal City , WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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