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From: <john_at_outdoorplace.org>
subject: [Paddlewise] Draw Strokes - Edging
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:16:26 -0500
What is the consensus on the most effective (efficient, stable) way to edge
a kayak on  draw strokes?  When executing a draw and sculling draw stroke, I
learned to face the draw side (paddle side), paddle vertical, and edge the
kayak so the draw side of the kayak is slightly UP.  However, a friend
learned to edge the draw side DOWN.  

A quick search on the internet and my small library turned up inconsistent
techniques:

Draw Side UP
------------
http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/Pages/ExpertCenter/propulsion/Propulsion-4
.shtml
Atlantic Kayak Tours' Expert Center:
"Lift the knee on the paddle side to keep the edge from getting caught as
the boat slips sideways." 

http://members.aol.com/kayakillen/katabasis/draw.htm
Ray Killen, ACA and BCU certified instructor:
"...you should be lifting the 'draw side' knee to edge the kayak to allow
the water to slip under the hull. If you edge the other way, you may pull
water onto the hull which could throw you off balance."


Draw Side DOWN
--------------
Video on this Liquid Rhythm Kayaking page (you may need to click to start
video):
http://www.liquidrhythmkayaking.com/Draws.html

Derek Hutchinson in The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking, 5th Ed.:
"With practice, you will be able to extend your reach by leaning the kayak
well over on its side.  This will certainly give your stroke more power.
However, you will also discover the submerged gunwale digging into the water
affects the strokes efficiency.
  As I draw the kayak towards the paddle, by knee on the opposite side to
the stroke is exerting an upward pressure under the cockpit coaming."


My thinking is that the draw side of the kayak UP has less frictional
resistance and less chance of 'tripping' over the paddle.  

What's your thinking?

Thanks,

John
Dallas, Texas
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From: Joseph Pylka <jpylka_at_earthlink.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Draw Strokes - Edging
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 11:34:49 -0400
	I'd have to be answering this from the perspective of a canoeist (think of
a canoe as a kayak without a top if that helps).
I originally learned, and now teach, that the gunwale facing the paddle
should be slightly elevated.  This lets the boat 'glide' more readily
across the water surface.  If it were down, then water would pile up on it
slowing the move, making me work more, and with a canoe if it's down too
far I'll have water in the boat.  
	A general rule with such a boat in moving water is to 'lean downstream'. 
That's mostly to let the onrushing water slide under the boat rather than
piling up on that side -- sometimes to the point where it gets the gunwale
under water and flips the boat.  Works for ferrying and for peeling out. 
--Especially when I'm trying to avoid a rock;  if I hit, the edge stays
above water and I just might get around the rock on the pillow.  The other
way I could be in a difficult position.

Joe P.



> [Original Message]
> From: <john_at_outdoorplace.org>
>
> What is the consensus on the most effective (efficient, stable) way to
edge
> a kayak on  draw strokes?  When executing a draw and sculling draw
stroke, I
> learned to face the draw side (paddle side), paddle vertical, and edge the
> kayak so the draw side of the kayak is slightly UP.  However, a friend
> learned to edge the draw side DOWN.  
> A quick search on the internet and my small library turned up inconsistent
> techniques:
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Draw Strokes - Edging
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:35:58 -0700
I'm not an instructor and never took a class in the draw stroke so I had to
sit in the kayak and try it to see just what *I* do.

For a sculling drawstroke (which I use most of the time when I need a draw
stroke) I treat the stroke as a less urgent (or more relaxed) high brace. My
paddle shaft is as vertical as I can get it and the kayak is edged towards
the paddle slightly. If water does pile up onto the kayak it's not important
because I have a brace in the water and can simply adjust my scull to
account for it.

But for a simple draw stroke I edge the kayak slightly away from the paddle.
I think I do this because in the past I've "tripped" over the draw stroke
and managed to capsize. This was entertaining for everyone except me. By
edging slightly away from the draw I give myself a little extra time to get
that paddle out of the water before the kayak's hull goes over it.

FWIW,
Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA

On 8/8/07, Joseph Pylka <jpylka_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>         I'd have to be answering this from the perspective of a canoeist
> (think of
> a canoe as a kayak without a top if that helps).
> I originally learned, and now teach, that the gunwale facing the paddle
> should be slightly elevated.  This lets the boat 'glide' more readily
> across the water surface.  If it were down, then water would pile up on it
> slowing the move, making me work more, and with a canoe if it's down too
> far I'll have water in the boat.
>         A general rule with such a boat in moving water is to 'lean
> downstream'.
> That's mostly to let the onrushing water slide under the boat rather than
> piling up on that side -- sometimes to the point where it gets the gunwale
> under water and flips the boat.  Works for ferrying and for peeling out.
> --Especially when I'm trying to avoid a rock;  if I hit, the edge stays
> above water and I just might get around the rock on the pillow.  The other
> way I could be in a difficult position.
>
> Joe P.
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From: John Kirk-Anderson <jka_at_netaccess.co.nz>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Draw Strokes - Edging
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:57:57 +1200
on 7/8/07 01:16, john_at_outdoorplace.org at john_at_outdoorplace.org wrote:

... I
> learned to face the draw side... UP.  However, a friend
> learned to edge the draw side DOWN.
> 

> 

> What's your thinking?
> 

Hi John,

Why not use both?

If you need to draw sideways in a hurry, for example to close the gap to a
kayak to assist with a rescue, you can lean well out with the side of the
kayak DOWN. This gives you reach but compromises stability, work up to it.

Then, as you draw strongly towards the paddle, roll the hull until the side
is UP, allows water to shed.

This takes practise as you are gaining support off a vertical paddle, but it
is a dynamic stroke and can be done quickly.

Give it a try,

Cheers

JKA


-- 
John Kirk-Anderson
Banks Peninsula
NEW ZEALAND
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