I just posted about finding the archives. What I am hoping the recent thread about "swim for it" will answer is simply: Is there a time one would abandon their boat when all else has failed? You are wearing your wet/dry suit, PFD, properly dressed for water temp, but for some reason you cannot get back in. Logic, w/o experience, says to me to stay with the boat, it is larger, therefore easier for the rescuers to see.. I think I'd use the line I carry with me to tie myself to the boat if I felt there was a chance of separation. What is the error in this thinking? Different note: I was launching at the public beach at my local marina when a power boater came over and thanked me for having a yellow poly kayak. He said it was the only color easily visible from his flybridge. I asked about red, he said yellow, only yellow. So there you have it from a random sampling of one, we know that yellow is the best color. I am myself working towards a mother ship and am looking at safety electronics. According to the discussion re radar on one list, one fellow said his radar shows the SF Bay Bridge as a solid wall. Others have indicated none but the newest radar can see us kayakers, and all agree that radar use has to be regularly practiced, otherwise is is practically useless. How many boaters with radar might practice regularly? I'm not holding my breath. The power boat crowd seems to think in terms of avoiding big ships with radar use, not small things in the water. So what is the concern/point about a radar reflector on a kayak? Having read a lot of sea kayaker back issues and taken several classes, I always go out in SF Bay with my farmer john, PFD, pump, paddle float, and if leaving the protected waters of the Marina or canal, take the VHF and GPS. My wife is given a float plan that includes return time and I call when I am out of the water. I practice my solo reentries, and have done so in about 2' chop, so far. Mike now closing in on 100 hours experience paddling, so the worst in nearly over. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike, I have and do swim with my kayak. I use my boat-to-person tether. Any other tow line/deck painter will work, but a quick release is probably wiser. I find swimming my boat to not really inhibit swimming in general. Once tired, especially in a PFD swimming, I often revert to the back stroke which keeps the waves from smashing in my face. I don't think I'd ever leave my boat and swim without it for any reason. I've talked with the Coat Guard fellows and they agree one should never normally abandon their kayak. Routine,none-extremis swimming of my kayak usually is done to clear rough hydraulics after tossing my boat into the sea from a none-seal launchable site, or if I'm practicing self re-entries and blow it and need to get to a bit calmer water. I've often toyed with the idea of swim fins being carried on my back deck, readily available. With my decreased swimming endurance as I age, the proposition is looking better at outfitting myself thusly. Good to hear you talk openly about your prudent period of pupilage working up to your first 100 hours. A lot of kayaking is premised on going out and figuring it out yourself. That's just how I got the archives to the digest list. :-) Doug Lloyd Mike said (snip): >I just posted about finding the archives. What I am hoping the recent >thread about "swim for it" will answer is simply: > > Is there a time one would abandon their boat when all else has failed? > You are wearing your wet/dry suit, PFD, properly dressed for water temp, > but for some reason you cannot get back in. > > Logic, w/o experience, says to me to stay with the boat, it is larger, > therefore easier for the rescuers to see.. > > I think I'd use the line I carry with me to tie myself to the boat if I > felt there was a chance of separation. What is the error in this thinking? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: Good to hear you talk openly about your prudent period of pupilage working up to your first 100 hours. A lot of kayaking is premised on going out and figuring it out yourself. ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Thanks, On my first advanced skill class was another fellow about my size and age, 6'+, 200# and early 50's. He had been a kayaker for some time, telling me that he just went for it. He took level one the day before and level two that I was in the next day because he wanted to be a guide for the company and they required rescue skills for the guides. The afternoon tide was flowing and the wind was behind it and we had at most two foot chop on the bay, pretty calm stuff. He looked out at it expressing concern about the wisdom of being out there in those conditions. He was a bit surprised when I told him that my level one class, a month earlier, had 13 knot winds against the ebb with 3' seas, and I did 4 various reentries that day in those condition, only one failing, and I thought the water on our lesson day was pretty calm.... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On my last trip to San O, I did just this. Holding on to my bowline with my PFD on, backstroke seems the best way to go and having a fin really helped. I just wish the stupid waves would take my boat in so I could just worry about getting myself to shore. On every swim, I've got to lug a kayak full of water. But that's my life! Mark -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Doug Lloyd I've often toyed with the idea of swim fins being carried on my back deck, readily available. With my decreased swimming endurance as I age, the proposition is looking better at outfitting myself thusly. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11/10/07, Mike Euritt <sixteenfeet_at_sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Is there a time one would abandon their boat when all else has failed? > You are wearing your wet/dry suit, PFD, properly dressed for water temp, but > for some reason you cannot get back in. I can think of one possible instance in which abandoning your kayak might be safer: You are on a rough river bar in relatively shallow water with the current carrying you out to sea but a stiff onshore wind is blowing the kayak you are holding onto back to the beach. You can't re-enter because conditions are too rough. If rescue is available outside the bar (but unable to come close because of conditions) you have the option of letting go of the kayak and allowing the wind to push it ashore while the current carries you out to the rescuers. This works because your body, immersed in the water is more affected by the water than the wind while the kayak is more affected by the wind than the current. > I think I'd use the line I carry with me to tie myself to the boat if I > felt there was a chance of separation. What is the error in this thinking? If the boat sinks..... Others have indicated none but the newest radar can see us kayakers, and all > agree that radar use has to be regularly practiced, otherwise is is > practically useless. How many boaters with radar might practice regularly? > I'm not holding my breath. The power boat crowd seems to think in terms of > avoiding big ships with radar use, not small things in the water. To understand why kayaks (and most "small things" in the water) are invisible to radar you have to understand that radar works by bouncing a microwave radio signal from the surface of the "target" (merchant marine officers don't like using that term, by the way). If the target is metallic and especially has hard edges and corners, it will show up better. If it's big it will show up better. Radar antennas are designed to carefully focus the radio beam tightly so the maximum effective power is aimed directly in front of the antenna. Since radio waves (and radar waves are the same) travel in a straight line, if you are below the height of the radar mast there is an increasing chance of not being seen the closer you get to the vessel. This is because the waves are passing over you. This is the same reason the Golden Gate Bridge appears to be a solid line; due to the curvature of the earth the radar sees the most massive part of the entrance - the bridge - until your vessel gets close enough for it to see under. At that time the "solid" bridge will begin to disappear and you'll get returns from outside the entrance. Further acting against your being seen on radar is the fact that kayaks have precious few big metallic parts and the same goes for the people sitting in or on them so the microwaves simply pass through (more-or-less harmlessly) and do not get reflected back to the radar unit and are not presented on the screen. And then, of course, the final problem: the operator has to be looking at the screen and able to understand what he (or she) is seeing. > So what is the concern/point about a radar reflector on a kayak? It depends on where you are and the conditions. If you are in San Francisco Bay on a calm day then a hat with crumpled up tinfoil in it might be seen on a properly adjusted marine radar system at the right distance. But if there are any waves and if the radar operator has reduced the "clutter" (which is really a sensitivity control) you will be lost in the noise. If you could get a big enough radar reflector high enough you might get enough of a reflection to paint a point on a radar screen. In my experience, however, there is not much point to it. Years of tramping up and down coasts in everything from salmon trollers to Chevron tankers taught me that even sailboats with radar reflectors are generally invisible in the sea returns. Now a "radar transponder", on the other hand, would work much better. A transponder is an electronic device that, when it detects a radar signal, emits a transmitted pulse on the same frequency. This greatly enhances the signal and the result is a much clearer position point on the radar screen. Paddlling in areas where powerboats and ships fear to tread (shallower water or just outside marked channels, for instance, works much better than depending upon someone seeing you on the radar screen. At least in my opinion. > Having read a lot of sea kayaker back issues and taken several classes, > I always go out in SF Bay with my farmer john, PFD, pump, paddle float, and > if leaving the protected waters of the Marina or canal, take the VHF and > GPS. My wife is given a float plan that includes return time and I call when > I am out of the water. I practice my solo reentries, and have done so in > about 2' chop, so far. Makes sense to me. Although I take the GPS with me as much as I can because it keeps track of how many miles I've paddled (146 on its trip meter this season and I know there are about 20 more when I either didn't carry it or its batteries died). I carry a VHF on Puget Sound or the Columbia River. Sometimes I even turn it on. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA Mike > now closing in on 100 hours experience paddling, so the worst in nearly > over. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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