Regarding being sewn into the boat, when Maligiac first came to the US to show his skills, he brought a genuine skinboat with him and a proper tuilick/anorak. The Anorak (made from gut?) reached to about his ankles when standing next to his boat. His cockpit rim had four bone segments attached to it on the outside (in place of our standard cockpit rim). The bottom edge of the anorak had a thong around it. In the boat, Maligiac tied the thong tight around the cockpit rim with the intent that the bottom edge would not come loose from the cockpit rim. This is their reality! There is no swimming home from a lost boat off the Greenland coast. The petrussan (sp?) maneuver allows a paddler to partially exit the cockpit of a capsized kayak and rise head and shoulders to the surface next to the cockpit- lower trunk still in boat. The unusual length of the anorak kept the paddler from being directly exposed to the cold water, offered the possibility of re-entry and roll, or assisted re-entry and roll with help of a fellow paddler. This approach seems better than "swimming for it" and merely requires the paddler to have truly mastered rolling. Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/14/2007 2:55:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, skimmer_at_enter.net writes: Regarding being sewn into the boat, when Maligiac first came to the US to show his skills, he brought a genuine skinboat with him and a proper tuilick/anorak. The Anorak (made from gut?) reached to about his ankles when standing next to his boat. His cockpit rim had four bone segments attached to it on the outside (in place of our standard cockpit rim). The bottom edge of the anorak had a thong around it. In the boat, Maligiac tied the thong tight around the cockpit rim with the intent that the bottom edge would not come loose from the cockpit rim. This is their reality! There is no swimming home from a lost boat off the Greenland coast. The petrussan (sp?) maneuver allows a paddler to partially exit the cockpit of a capsized kayak and rise head and shoulders to the surface next to the cockpit- lower trunk still in boat. The unusual length of the anorak kept the paddler from being directly exposed to the cold water, offered the possibility of re-entry and roll, or assisted re-entry and roll with help of a fellow paddler. This approach seems better than "swimming for it" and merely requires the paddler to have truly mastered rolling. Chuck Sutherland >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck and all, I think I know what you are saying and in my heart of hearts I tend to lean heavily to at least what I interpret of what you are saying....but a big however ( to follow). One of the dogmas I'd like to see permanently retired from sea kayaking is the bit about not necessarily needing to roll. Ya ya, I know, I swam recently, but just hang on. I had and have, options beyond roll and die and the Petrussen (sic?) maneuver. Mostly it is due to immersion apparel, lifejackets and post swim floatablility to the boat, up to and including bulkheads. Harder in the river with only float bags but I get another chance with a reenter and roll, paddle float, etc., in the sea kayak. The Inuit did not, beyond the Petrussen maneuver, if they knew that one. What kind of survival rates did their kayakers enjoy? Fairly high, actually. But lower than rec boaters of today. And that was because they had to do what they did to bring the blubber home. Otherwise the society was less apt to make it. A swim is not your best bet for safest of options unless your boat is wedged, destroyed, etc. But if it happens, it is not your end of the road. If you can make it and do, then do so. Countless have and countless haven't. Odds even? If you don't know how to swim, and the arctic is not the best place to even bother to learn, roll-die-or Petrussen- might be the better of options. In modern times, with modern equipment choices, up to and including your spraydeck with neoprene tunnel keeping your core warmer than the surrounding sea you have more options. Do I take off the neoprene spraydeck, in addition to my lifejacket to reduce swim drag, thus sacrificing even more core warming potential, to make it to shore, or do I keep it on. The last bit hasn't been added yet to the Swim For It discussion to my reading anyway. I like options. Cheers, Rob G ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: > Chuck and all, > > I think I know what you are saying and in my heart of hearts I tend to lean > heavily to at least what I interpret of what you are saying....but a big > however ( to follow). One of the dogmas I'd like to see permanently retired from > sea kayaking is the bit about not necessarily needing to roll. Rob, with all due respect to a paddler with more talent in his little toe than I have in my entire body: it ain't dogma, it is a different approach to paddling than what you believe in. In brief, different strokes ... different folks. We call all the variants of what owners of "sea kayaks" do, "sea kayaking," but what people actually do with these boats is very diverse. Sure enough, for open ocean paddling, or "open coast paddling," having a solid, dependable roll is a critical skill. Ask around and find out what proportion of "sea kayak" paddlers paddle open ocean conditions. Those who do not, may not "need" a dependable roll to stay within a reasonable envelope of safety, an envelope as broad and encompassing as the envelope surrounding a paddler skilled in rolling who invites using it by regularly exploring extremely demanding conditions. However, I am pretty sure we agree on one aspect of this: lots and lots of paddlers, with or without a dependable roll, regularly engage in paddling waters where their safety envelope is very small ... here's the part where we agree, I bet ... and they do _not_ have a good grasp of how much risk they are taking. That's the part of paddling safely where anybody, a roller or nonroller, needs to get on board. It is the single attribute most common among paddlers of my acquaintance who have been "in trouble" at some point. Reasons abound for a paddler not knowing how much risk he/she is taking, but I suspect the principal one is inability to conceptualize, in practical terms, and practice, how to retrieve themselves from a capsize and/or swim. If we work on that, folks whose paddling demands a reliable roll will be mandated to get one, or change where and how they paddle. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/14/2007 8:38:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, kdruger_at_pacifier.com writes: Rob, with all due respect to a paddler with more talent in his little toe than I have in my entire body: it ain't dogma, it is a different approach to paddling than what you believe in. In brief, different strokes ... different folks. We call all the variants of what owners of "sea kayaks" do, "sea kayaking," but what people actually do with these boats is very diverse. Sure enough, for open ocean paddling, or "open coast paddling," having a solid, dependable roll is a critical skill. Ask around and find out what proportion of "sea kayak" paddlers paddle open ocean conditions. Those who do not, may not "need" a dependable roll to stay within a reasonable envelope of safety, an envelope as broad and encompassing as the envelope surrounding a paddler skilled in rolling who invites using it by regularly exploring extremely demanding conditions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave, I completely disagree. (And that is with all due respect, of course.) There are many reasons paddlers choose to not learn, but it is a choice, and diversity aside, if they paddle a hundred yards or more offshore, they ought to rethink things. A hundred yards in paddling clothes is a long way to swim in cold water. Ask me how I know this. ; ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, I am pretty sure we agree on one aspect of this: lots and lots of paddlers, with or without a dependable roll, regularly engage in paddling waters where their safety envelope is very small ... here's the part where we agree, I bet ... and they do _not_ have a good grasp of how much risk they are taking. That's the part of paddling safely where anybody, a roller or nonroller, needs to get on board. It is the single attribute most common among paddlers of my acquaintance who have been "in trouble" at some point. Reasons abound for a paddler not knowing how much risk he/she is taking, but I suspect the principal one is inability to conceptualize, in practical terms, and practice, how to retrieve themselves from a capsize and/or swim. If we work on that, folks whose paddling demands a reliable roll will be mandated to get one, or change where and how they paddle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with that. The issue isn't as simple as never swim in the first place or with good judgement and fewer backup skills to back you up, you'll be fine. I think the best answer to the discussion is having multiple layers of defense. Starting with judgement, but not lapsing on the safety equipment and skill set to use it properly. Just my 2 cents, but when ever that tired argument about not needing to learn to roll gets trotted out it usually turns out to be 99 % excuse and 1% opinion. (Ouch! My most inflammatory Paddlewise comment, like, ever.) Cheers, Rob G ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck wrote: >Regarding being sewn into the boat, when Maligiac first >came to the US to show his skills, he brought a genuine >skinboat with him and a proper tuilick/anorak. The Anorak >(made from gut?) reached to about his ankles when >standing next to his boat. G'Day Chuck, Thanks for describing that technique. I had no idea it was so sophisticated. I wonder how practical it might be compared with the back up rescue methods we use these days. Was it routinely applied or a last ditch technique only useful in near freezing conditions? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:47 PDT