Re: [Paddlewise] Another Tiderace Review

On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote:

<el snippo>

>
>  I'd expect nothing less from Sterling though, in terms of his
> good-workmanship, build-proper ethic. Matt put me on to him a while back;
> the man's a freaking genius, living in relative obscurity (from my
> perspective, anyway).
>

I was impressed with his shop and his people who were checking in with him
regarding quality issues so often while he and I chatted that I began to
feel guilty for taking him away from his work. The Ice Kap (Pam just bought
one) is a boat I think you could fall in love with.


>  a double-redundancy hatch cover system: a large over-hatch (if a stripper
> kayak, then a section of deck cut out to make the hatch, followed by a
> Kajaksport hatch underneath). That way I get double the protection, and
> a smooth, gorgeous, continuous splash-proof deck, with the UV-protected,
> out-of-da-way hatch below.
>

One of the things I like about the big Telkwa HV (which, by the way, is also
a boat that Sterling paddles) and its hatches. I also liked the early
adoption of the paddlefloat straps (which Sterling has improved upon with
the Ice Kap). Sterling has a close association with Nimbus.


>
>
>
> Deck rigging: You are talking to a guy who spent 4 to 5 hours per recessed
> deck fitting for an individual mold-refit on 20 fittings on one of his epic
> multi-month Nordkapp rebuilds. But for my next kayak, I'm going to the other
> extreme, with a full sweep of clear deck.
>

I'm just afraid that if I change anything I'll kick myself later. Stuff on
the back deck doesn't bother me (I can't twist around enough to even look
back very easily). Matt's deck rigging looks so... so.... complicated that
it just *must* be super useful. I'm just too dense to figure out how to use
it more effectively. LOL


> The situation with your deck rigging on the older Mariner seems easily
> fixable. I don't like the Mariner paddle cleats on the foredecks though, but
> then have I ever taken the time to evaluate the merits?
>

I'm sure there is one. Paddle park? Tow cleat? The cleats don't interfere
with any of my paddling so I'll let 'em act as plugs for the holes in the
deck they drilled to mount them until I decide otherwise. But deck rigging
is the easiest thing to fix if you don't like it.

>
> Kayak reviews - I couldn't sleep last night; total insomnia until 4:00am.
> I read kayak reviews for 6 hours straight!
>

I wish I had a better handle on just how valuable reviews are. Sea Kayaker
is probably the best with its lineup of various paddlers of various
gender/size categories. By the time we are qualified to review kayaks we're
no longer able to hide our prejudices. LOL

 Reviewers called it a "lively hull." There was observations about how the
> Nordy's lack of secondary stability compared to the, say, NDK Explorer's,
> made that last bit of completing a roll just that bit more difficult.
>

Now, see... this is where I completely lose touch with the thread. When I
came back to sea kayaks I was stunned to find them so much less stable than
white water kayaks. Modern w/w boats are lots wider of course (there has to
be some place for your knees to go when you stuff a 6'2" frame into a 6'0"
playboat) which accounts for the initial stability; but they have impressive
secondary stability too (so you can edge to and fro in eddies). The only
"twitch" factor in a w/w boat is the lateral (directional) stability which,
of course, is practically non-existent. Imagine my surprise when people tell
me that a sea kayak with 120 gallons of volume is "too small" for me (my
biggest w/w boat is 90 gallons and supports me just fine). Why I would
actually seek out a twitchy boat to take into white water remains a mystery
to me. Maybe I'm just too much of an ol' fart but I'm perfectly capable of
screwing up a move all by myself; I don't want my kayak to step in and make
it worse. But I don't want it so stable that it has no performance either.
Another thing I like about the Mariners.

>
> And yes, the Mariner handling aspect would address many of the more honest
> reviews of other brands of kayaks with handling/tracking, maneuverability
> issues. But like Jerry pointed out, wave effects and wind effect are
> different issues, whose combined energies present both unique problems and
> commingled difficulties for paddlers and designers alike.
>

When I first got the Express last year and my son and I went on a weekend
trip into upper Priest Lake in Idaho, I let him have the Nimbus because....
well... because it was a new boat to me and I wanted it to myself. The first
thing that surprised me was that I could stuff about 90% as much into the 16
foot Express (with no hatches) as we could get into the Nimbus. Of course,
the hatches in the Nimbus meant that we could put things we might want
(like, say... another hat) on top in a hatch and it would be just fine under
that double-cover system.

The second surprise was when the southerly wind kicked up. It had a lot of
fetch and the whitecaps were hitting us pretty hard but the Express -
despite being loaded down by both me and the crap I'd put into it - rode
over them. Neither kayak was much affected by the wind but the Nimbus
actually was taking more water over it than the Express. Dan had not secured
his skirt that well (it's just a lake... after all) and he got a nice bath
out of the ride. The ability of that Mariner hull to ride over and not
through big waves was demonstrated later that month in the San Juans. I'm
sure Matt had mentioned it but I was surprised, nevertheless.



> Hey, let me come down and try em out sometime, okay? Racing with Matt on
> Lake Union and trying the odd Mariner out (err, kayak that is) on the open
> coast hasn't given me enough experience yet with the lineup.
>

You bet... In fact we just bought a nice lot on Whidbey Island that's in a
beach community  (Beverly Beach near Freeland) with 3200 feet of private
beach that's perfect for launching. Only 20 miles from Deception Pass too.
We're going to put up a yurt for a cabin and that should leave lots of room
for friends to drop by and pitch tents. Parking is somewhat slim but we can
clog the road; no one drives on it anyway. LOL.  You can bring the family
down. I have enough kayaks for everyone. LOL


> SOF anthromorphic fit - an internet Google search reveals there is some
> controversy on this subject; some cultural Inuit regional discrepancies are
> cited and even Inuit personal preferences. I've always wondered how one can
> say, "Build three arm spans" when some designs have huge overhangs compared
> to others. I do know that kayak industry is trying to catch up with the
> situation, offering more boat sizes for a given model (must me the ladies
> have more money now). Ah, money talks.
>

Ladies have always controlled money; now they make it too. :)


> Boat aesthetics - hey Craig, if I lived directly on the open coast, say
> like at Port Renfrew, I'd have no problem with a kayak whose form followed
> function like a Coaster. Jump in after work, head out to the local rock
> garden, play until dinner, come home. Who cares what the boat looks like.
> But for my main ride, I seem to like some form (form that appeals to me).
> Certainly my function works better when I see good form. At least when I
> used to date. :-)
>

One of the Coaster reviews on paddling.net mentions that he uses his Coaster
for paddling sloughs and ponds and likes its small size and light weight. No
mention of surfing or rock gardens. Then he also says that his ten year old
daughter loves the Coaster because it's so easy to paddle. Interesting take
on a boat that's not exactly famous as a kid's boat. But somehow not
surprising.


> Honestly? Okay, as for kayak and kayaking and being a kayaker, I still
> have a huge problem, and may need a twelve-step program.
>

Welcome to your mid-life crisis. Stay away from Harley motorcycles, Porsche
sports cars and precocious 17 year old girls. <grin>  I enjoyed my first one
so much I had a couple more. The major symptom is a pathetic attempt to
recover our lost youth or, worse yet, what we would have liked our lost
youth to have been. Ever notice all those old chopped, leaded and channeled
1932 Fords are driven by 60 year old guys? With us, of course, it's gotta
float.

 Maybe you were right about me ever being happy in a different boat. I'll
> keep trying. Step two...hey, those Mariner's look cool, gotta try one.
>

It would be more than interesting to see how you like a Coaster in Deception
Pass during a nice ebb. We'll only be a walk-on ride on the ferry away. You
go get your passport and I'll go get mine. I plan on spending mucho time in
the Gulf Islands over the next few years. The mutha ship will cut the San
Juans down to size. LOL


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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