I am likely going to buy a Pacific Action sail for my double baidarka next week. I am unlikely to tell my wife what a PA sail costs. While doing the typical internet hopping around on the subject of kayak sails I visited Canoe Sailing magazine. I found this article: http:// canoesailingmagazine.com/index.php/Issue-3/Wet-Exits-Wider- Boats.html . I read it quickly once and then more slowly a second time. It reminded me of the passionate discussions we have here. Discussions that frequently change my mind on things from time to time like Scott vs the world on PFD use and how he made me think and change my position a bit. I found some things in the article worthy of passing on to a beginner in a kayak club concerning water temp and safety. I saw the similarity between my club with the pair in the article who went out and back and the lead paddler never noticed the trail paddler dump and so kept going. The trail paddler walked the 1/4 mile back to shore. I would hate to think of the outcome if that paddler had been in water requiring the Jesus effect to be invoked to walk back. I was pleased to see the article touch upon skills, equipment and knowledge but I was very disappointed in the point of the article. Wide=stable. I know its a canoe sailing site but the article seems to make the point that a wider boat is a safer boat. Fine for a sailing craft I guess but who is the article's audience? Hoping I haven't become a smelly self appointed elite, Jim et al PS Why didn't they mention the benefits of Monkey's fist toggle handles? I gotta get a few thousand words out on that hot button topic to the editors of SKM. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
First of all, I haven't tied a monkey's fist in 30 years and the toggles on my Mariners are too short to get a hook in to tied them down on the Kia let alone put a finger in. But the Nimbus boats.... hmmmm. I am likely going to buy a Pacific Action sail for my double baidarka > next week. I would really like to hear how you like the PA sail. Be sure and post something, please. > I am unlikely to tell my wife what a PA sail costs. One only acquires true wisdom as one ages. My advice is to ignore the issue of price totally and, if pressed, lie like a rug. While doing the typical internet hopping around on the subject of kayak > sails I visited Canoe Sailing magazine. I found this article: http:// > canoesailingmagazine.com/index.php/Issue-3/Wet-Exits-Wider-Boats.html . An interesting article written by people who are canoists, sailors, and boatbuilders. I read it quickly once and then more slowly a second > time. It reminded me of the passionate discussions we have here. > Discussions that frequently change my mind on things from time to > time like Scott vs the world on PFD use and how he made me think and > change my position a bit. There are many groups with useful discussions. Even way back on rec.boats we had some interesting debates. Often, however, the points of view are not interchangeable. I think this is what is going on with the Canoe Sailing Magazine article. It's written from the point of view of people who do not kayak or whose kayaking experiences are limited. > > I was pleased to see the article touch upon skills, equipment and > knowledge > but I was very disappointed in the point of the article. Wide=stable. > I know its a canoe sailing site but the article seems to make the > point that a wider boat is a safer boat. Fine for a sailing craft I > guess but who is the article's audience? I thought that the thrust of the discussion was that "wider = more stable"; which is true for initial stability. And let's face it, initial stability is all new paddlers feel. I would expect this attitude from people who are writing for an audience interested in sailing canoes. And for a brand new kayaker a wide and stable kayak *is* safer. I put new paddlers in an 11-foot (28 inches wide) Loon my daughter learned in (she paddles a Nimbus Solander now). It's the same boat she used to introduce her boyfriend (now husband) to kayaking (he paddles a Nimbus Telkwa now). And it's the same boat I put 6-year-old Hailey in last summer so she could demonstrate to her mother how she could - all by herself - paddle the boat out 50 feet, turn around, and paddle back and bump the nose of the Loon into the dock. And I've been critical, myself, of the way so many paddlers insist that the long, narrow kayak is the best for everything. I don't think they are but I don't think they're unsafe. I do think they'd be unsafe for a complete novice and even for many paddlers with years of experience. My father used to say that a certain co-worker didn't have 10 years of experience; he had 1 year of experience 10 times over. And that is true for many kayakers (and sailors and powerboaters... and even boat builders). There's nothing wrong with that... one of the joys of kayaking is that you can choose the level you like and just stay there for years. Another thrust of the piece was that kayaking magazines pander to their advertisers. Well, duh. Advertisers pay the bills. What paddling magazine would refuse to take an ad from a manufacturer because it was too narrow? Do new kayakers often choose boats (and aspects of the sport) that are unsuitable for them based on advertising? Sure. They choose unsuitable boats from what they see on tv shows and movies too. I bought my RPM Max white water boat from an ad that read: "For sale, RPM Max white water kayak with paddle, PFD, spray skirt and floatation. Used once on the Deschutes River." There's an entire story about someone getting in too far in those 20 words. I'm sure that there are a lot of sea and touring kayaks on craigslist for the same reasons. But I don't think it was fair of them to choose two or three issues of Paddler Magazine and complain that they didn't have complete instructions for self rescue. Paddler Magazine tries to cover a lot of territory and I think they do it well. But they don't try to cover every aspect in every issue. That's what books are for. I think we should expect some safety coverage from every watersport magazine but some fall short. Powerboat magazines fall far short. SKM does very well, I think... and, to be fair, the article gave Chris Cunningham a lot of credit. Still, as you say, a lot of what they were trying to get across was valuable. Self rescue skills are important and need to be practiced; many paddlers cannot roll and never will learn to roll; PFDs should be worn not carried; dress for the water temperature not the air temperature; and pay attention to the paddlers around you (something *I* need to get better at). But they were canoists, sailors and boatbuilders not kayakers. They might have done better by making more clear the fact that they were not experts in the field they were criticizing. Hoping I haven't become a smelly self appointed elite, > Every activity has people who focus on different aspects of that activity. In computers there are Linux gods and Windows users. In bicycling there are road riders and there are mountain bikers. In gliders there are pilots who have never left the airport pattern while others set 1000km records. In kayaking there are people who do it for the tranquility... and then there are people who don't do it for the tranquility. :) Craig Jungers, Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Too many wonderful things to comment on as I am out the door NOW for vacation but I hope Kirk feels the need to stick your reply in the sacred archives and read it aloud once a year. Sincere thanks, Jim et al > Every activity has people who focus on different aspects of that > activity. In computers there are Linux gods and Windows users. In > bicycling there are road riders and there are mountain bikers. In > gliders there are pilots who have never left the airport pattern > while others set 1000km records. In kayaking there are people who > do it for the tranquility... and then there are people who don't do > it for the tranquility. :) > > > Craig Jungers, > Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think Craig has demonstrated a bit of bias. Apparently Linux people are "gods" and us Window people are just "users"! -----Original Message----- > Every activity has people who focus on different aspects of that > activity. In computers there are Linux gods and Windows users. In > bicycling there are road riders and there are mountain bikers. In > gliders there are pilots who have never left the airport pattern > while others set 1000km records. In kayaking there are people who > do it for the tranquility... and then there are people who don't do > it for the tranquility. :) > > > Craig Jungers, > Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> wrote: > I think Craig has demonstrated a bit of bias. > Apparently Linux people are "gods" and us Window people are just "users"! > > > Darn right! (He says from his Windoze laptop.) Hey, it would be a Linux laptop but my wife got it for me at Christmas and I just havent changed it yet. :P Craig Jungers Lording it up in Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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