Pam and I thought that, given the nature of Paddlewise to digest safety incidents and because there are so many well-qualified paddlers on the list, we should put this out for discussion. There is something to learn from it, I think. The Seattle/Tacoma area remains ice free all year around (except for some harbors and marinas) and boating can be done at any time. In fact, we used to go to a nice cove every December 31st and spend New Year's Eve in a quiet anchorage around a warm heater. Close to the heater, as I recall. Anyway, despite this factoid the area has an official "opening day" of the boating season which falls some time around the first of May. They have boat parades and everything. Then they all motor to the same slip they keep their boats in year around. Don't ask. This incident involves currents around an area (Point Defiance) near the Tacoma Narrows. Most of you have heard of the Tacoma Narrows and the bridge that thrashed itself to death there. Well Point Defiance juts out into the current stream north of Tacoma and offers some eddy protection either north or south of the point; depending upon which way the current is flowing. The entire point is a park operated by the City of Tacoma (with a zoo and everything) where kayaks are rented and both canoes and kayaks are commonly launched. Water temperatures in the area range from the low 40s (F) in to the low 50s (F) depending upon the season and the current flow. Currents in the Narrows itself can reach 7kts and tables show current speeds commonly reach 4kts north of the Narrows. The weekend of May 5th was the first nice weekend of the "boating season" and several Puget Sound paddlers were taking rescue lessons at the beach right next to the point (south) when they watched a canoe with two people float around the Point and past on the flood and then turn into the eddy south of the Point to paddle back to their launch site. But the way the Point lays to the current the eddy ends with a strong eddy-line which has to be crossed; at which time you're in the full flow of the current and have to paddle at 4kts (or more) to get around the point itself. As the canoe approached the eddy line one of the rescue students on shore, a USCG officer, got his VHF ready to call for help should the people in the canoe overturn and end up in the water. Reports indicated that as the canoe crossed the eddy line into the main current they were hit by a large boat wake and the occupants were thrown into the water wearing only street clothing. The USCG officer involved in the paddling class immediately keyed his VHF and put out a Mayday for help. Three of the rescue instructors were already on the water in their kayaks and headed right out to the swimmers. The rest of the class also piled into their kayaks and likewise headed to the swimmers. The USCG officer remained on shore with his radio. The co-instructors got to the swimmers and the canoe, emptied the canoe of water and then braced it so that the swimmers could re-enter their boat. Then the 3 co-instructors took the canoe in tow with one left to steady the canoe as they towed it and its occupants to shore. When the students arrive they take up positions nearby. One approached the canoe and asked the occupants questions designed to determine their mental state. He reported that they had been in the water about 5 minutes and didn't seem impaired but might have been slightly disoriented. Three boats arrived before the canoe got to the shoreline; two USCG boats and one patrol boat from Tacoma Police Department but by this time the canoe and its occupants were almost ashore but the two former swimmers opt to clamber into one of the USCG boats. The female says "thanks" to the kayakers and the male also says "thanks" but they claim that they could have swam to shore unassisted. The implication (or maybe just my inference) is that the male swimmer might have been somewhat irked. Shortly after that incident a rental SOT kayak with a guy and girl (dressed in street attire) managed to get into the main flood current and decided, after about five minutes, that they weren't going to get around the Point and managed to get to the beach. The girl was apparently not a happy camper and the guy was embarassed. The students at the rescue practice towed their kayak around the Point for them while the guy and girl trudged back to return their rental kayak. This seems somewhat straightforward but there has been some Monday-morning quarterbacking (now *there* is a surprise) around the first (canoe) incident. 1. Several people felt that calling Mayday when two swimmers were in the water only a short distance from shore was unnecessary since the swimmers were not really at risk with 4 instructors and several experienced kayakers as students close by. The actual distance wasn't mentioned but I estimate it at less than 50 feet. Others felt that since it was a USCG officer (off duty) who made the call then everyone else should shut up. Or words to that effect. 2. I tend to think that launching 7 or 8 kayakers to rescue two swimmers less than 50 feet from shore was overkill. The three co-instructors obviously had all the skills needed to cope with the situation (and did) and the rest of the class should have either stayed on the beach or, at most, stayed well clear. Too many cooks, etc. 3. There were several remarks about the kayak rental place not requiring customers to be dressed for immersion; especially given the dangerous nature of the area with strong currents and associated eddy lines and the cold water. 4. Someone had remarked that their use of a cell phone to call 911 during a previous incident at that same location had resulted in a 30 minute wait for assistance. The USCG and Tacoma PD boats were there lots faster than that and indicates that, at elast in a well populated area, a VHF call on channel 16 is effective in getting help. 5. The two canoists seemed somewhat angry that they were "rescued" from a situation in which they could have easily swam to shore. One of the students thought that, given the water temperature and the speed of the current, they didn't know how close they came to death. 6. Boat wakes from large power vessels can be, in my opinion, worse than the currents and wave trains one finds around Puget Sound. If there is one good thing to be said about high gasoline prices, it's that maybe there won't be quite so many 40-foot (and over) boats trying to get a semi-displacement hull up onto a plane with sheer horsepower. Ok... maybe this isn't a discussion point but it's one of my pet peeves. I might add as an afterthought that a few years ago, while paddling near the University of Washington I witnessed a power boat, apparently driven by people involved with the UW canoe rental program, swamp a canoe with two girls aboard about 200 yards off the rental docks. The power boat was running off-plane but fast and leaving a large wake which tipped the girls over. I sat by and watched these twits spend 25 minutes (with the girls in the water) trying to get the canoe up onto their boat and empty it. The water temp was in the 70s so no one was in danger and I eventually got bored and paddled away. The last I saw they were still trying to get the canoe empty. The stupidity of people who can just turn a key and drive a boat away from a dock should never be underestimated. Any comments? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Point Defiance gets alot of interesting traffic. My wife, my self and a good friend towed a pair of rafts lashed together to shore at Point D. Mom and dad were in the lead raft and 3 cute, squealy, young girls were in the back raft. I asked my wife to monitor the kids in back as the waves were big enough to space launch one or all of them. My bedside manners needed improvement as mom groaned as I said that. They were all in bathing suits and the water temps were low 50's. We clipped on and got them to shore into the eddy and they walked and lined the raft back to Owen beach. I asked?dad if he knew what the water around here does and he had no idea. He said once off shore they got caught in the current and there was nothing he could do to get out. On your case, if a USCG officer calls Mayday, end of discussion. As far as the other rescuers they were well placed to get the victims back in the boat. They may have thought they could swim to shore but few people can swim a hundred yards in cold water wearing street clothes. My only observation is that when you have several people in on a rescue it gets kind of crowded and impairs the rescuer who has the boat in hand's mobility. Additionally, should any of them flip and swim, the rescuer now has a busier day than planned. Funny how large boat wakes appear just when crossing an eddyline, one of the leading causes of going upside down in river running.? Are the witnesses sure it wasn't just that? Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Mon, 12 May 2008 2:33 pm Subject: [Paddlewise] Canoe Rescue off Point Defiance in Fast Current Pam and I thought that, given the nature of Paddlewise to digest safety incidents and because there are so many well-qualified paddlers on the list, we should put this out for discussion. There is something to learn from it, I think. The Seattle/Tacoma area remains ice free all year around (except for some harbors and marinas) and boating can be done at any time. In fact, we used to go to a nice cove every December 31st and spend New Year's Eve in a quiet anchorage around a warm heater. Close to the heater, as I recall. Anyway, despite this factoid the area has an official "opening day" of the boating season which falls some time around the first of May. They have boat parades and everything. Then they all motor to the same slip they keep their boats in year around. Don't ask. This incident involves currents around an area (Point Defiance) near the Tacoma Narrows. Most of you have heard of the Tacoma Narrows and the bridge that thrashed itself to death there. Well Point Defiance juts out into the current stream north of Tacoma and offers some eddy protection either north or south of the point; depending upon which way the current is flowing. The entire point is a park operated by the City of Tacoma (with a zoo and everything) where kayaks are rented and both canoes and kayaks are commonly launched. Water temperatures in the area range from the low 40s (F) in to the low 50s (F) depending upon the season and the current flow. Currents in the Narrows itself can reach 7kts and tables show current speeds commonly reach 4kts north of the Narrows. The weekend of May 5th was the first nice weekend of the "boating season" and several Puget Sound paddlers were taking rescue lessons at the beach right next to the point (south) when they watched a canoe with two people float around the Point and past on the flood and then turn into the eddy south of the Point to paddle back to their launch site. But the way the Point lays to the current the eddy ends with a strong eddy-line which has to be crossed; at which time you're in the full flow of the current and have to paddle at 4kts (or more) to get around the point itself. As the canoe approached the eddy line one of the rescue students on shore, a USCG officer, got his VHF ready to call for help should the people in the canoe overturn and end up in the water. Reports indicated that as the canoe crossed the eddy line into the main current they were hit by a large boat wake and the occupants were thrown into the water wearing only street clothing. The USCG officer involved in the paddling class immediately keyed his VHF and put out a Mayday for help. Three of the rescue instructors were already on the water in their kayaks and headed right out to the swimmers. The rest of the class also piled into their kayaks and likewise headed to the swimmers. The USCG officer remained on shore with his radio. The co-instructors got to the swimmers and the canoe, emptied the canoe of water and then braced it so that the swimmers could re-enter their boat. Then the 3 co-instructors took the canoe in tow with one left to steady the canoe as they towed it and its occupants to shore. When the students arrive they take up positions nearby. One approached the canoe and asked the occupants questions designed to determine their mental state. He reported that they had been in the water about 5 minutes and didn't seem impaired but might have been slightly disoriented. Three boats arrived before the canoe got to the shoreline; two USCG boats and one patrol boat from Tacoma Police Department but by this time the canoe and its occupants were almost ashore but the two former swimmers opt to clamber into one of the USCG boats. The female says "thanks" to the kayakers and the male also says "thanks" but they claim that they could have swam to shore unassisted. The implication (or maybe just my inference) is that the male swimmer might have been somewhat irked. Shortly after that incident a rental SOT kayak with a guy and girl (dressed in street attire) managed to get into the main flood current and decided, after about five minutes, that they weren't going to get around the Point and managed to get to the beach. The girl was apparently not a happy camper and the guy was embarassed. The students at the rescue practice towed their kayak around the Point for them while the guy and girl trudged back to return their rental kayak. This seems somewhat straightforward but there has been some Monday-morning quarterbacking (now *there* is a surprise) around the first (canoe) incident. 1. Several people felt that calling Mayday when two swimmers were in the water only a short distance from shore was unnecessary since the swimmers were not really at risk with 4 instructors and several experienced kayakers as students close by. The actual distance wasn't mentioned but I estimate it at less than 50 feet. Others felt that since it was a USCG officer (off duty) who made the call then everyone else should shut up. Or words to that effect. 2. I tend to think that launching 7 or 8 kayakers to rescue two swimmers less than 50 feet from shore was overkill. The three co-instructors obviously had all the skills needed to cope with the situation (and did) and the rest of the class should have either stayed on the beach or, at most, stayed well clear. Too many cooks, etc. 3. There were several remarks about the kayak rental place not requiring customers to be dressed for immersion; especially given the dangerous nature of the area with strong currents and associated eddy lines and the cold water. 4. Someone had remarked that their use of a cell phone to call 911 during a previous incident at that same location had resulted in a 30 minute wait for assistance. The USCG and Tacoma PD boats were there lots faster than that and indicates that, at elast in a well populated area, a VHF call on channel 16 is effective in getting help. 5. The two canoists seemed somewhat angry that they were "rescued" from a situation in which they could have easily swam to shore. One of the students thought that, given the water temperature and the speed of the current, they didn't know how close they came to death. 6. Boat wakes from large power vessels can be, in my opinion, worse than the currents and wave trains one finds around Puget Sound. If there is one good thing to be said about high gasoline prices, it's that maybe there won't be quite so many 40-foot (and over) boats trying to get a semi-displacement hull up onto a plane with sheer horsepower. Ok... maybe this isn't a discussion point but it's one of my pet peeves. I might add as an afterthought that a few years ago, while paddling near the University of Washington I witnessed a power boat, apparently driven by people involved with the UW canoe rental program, swamp a canoe with two girls aboard about 200 yards off the rental docks. The power boat was running off-plane but fast and leaving a large wake which tipped the girls over. I sat by and watched these twits spend 25 minutes (with the girls in the water) trying to get the canoe up onto their boat and empty it. The water temp was in the 70s so no one was in danger and I eventually got bored and paddled away. The last I saw they were still trying to get the canoe empty. The stupidity of people who can just turn a key and drive a boat away from a dock should never be underestimated. Any comments? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> 1. Several people felt that calling Mayday when two > swimmers were in the > water only a short distance from shore was > unnecessary since the swimmers > were not really at risk with 4 instructors and > several experienced kayakers > as students close by. The actual distance wasn't > mentioned but I estimate it > at less than 50 feet. Others felt that since it was > a USCG officer (off > duty) who made the call then everyone else should > shut up. Or words to that > effect. Perhaps it have been reasonable to make a "Pan Pan" radio call instead. Coast guard could be advised that the situation was unfolding. Should two unrelated come in at the same time, they could prioritise and respond accordingly. Local Police/Ambulance calls are ranked on a priority of 1 to 5. Level 1 calls are low priority. Have no fear. They'll get to you eventually. Level 4 and Level 5 are high priority, and they go to the front of the response que. Derek --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > 1. Several people felt that calling Mayday when two swimmers were in the > water only a short distance from shore was unnecessary since the swimmers > were not really at risk with 4 instructors and several experienced kayakers > as students close by. The actual distance wasn't mentioned but I estimate it > at less than 50 feet. Hogwash. Immersion shock and/or rapid onset of hypothermia could quickly make it very difficult to get one of those folks out of the water. In addition, the rescue boats, etc., are equipped to take incapacitated people immediately to a hospital or waiting ambulance. Suppose one of those folks had not made it? Then how would the Coastie have felt at the inquest when asked, "And what was your thinking in not immediately asking for qualified asistance?" Right call. As to launching the "fleet " of students: no biggie; they needed to see it up close and personal. A very teachable moment. No matter if there were too many of them. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 02:33:16PM -0700, Craig Jungers wrote: > 3. There were several remarks about the kayak rental place not requiring > customers to be dressed for immersion; especially given the dangerous nature > of the area with strong currents and associated eddy lines and the cold > water. Now that's a problem. Having spent my fair share of time in cold water (I paddle whitewater year-round) I know that even with the right gear, acclimization to cold, and good physical conditioning, it's difficult to cover a substantial distance once the effects set in. Few people appreciate this, though, and they seem to appreciate it even less when they're standing on land on a dry, warm, sunny day. And of course rental shops are disinclined to educate them or to require proper clothing since both would be likely to decrease their business. I think the decision by the rental company to permit those people to go out under those conditions without appropriate gear is the root cause of the incident. Everything that happened afterwards was a consequence of it or of the attempts to fix the ensuing problems. But unless someone with regulatory authority gets involved, there's no economic motivation for the rental shop to change its procedures, and thus, it seems, there's a substantial likelihood that similar incidents will occur in the future. > The implication (or maybe just my inference) is that the > male swimmer might have been somewhat irked. Once Upon A Time, I caught up to a recreational canoeist who'd flipped, come out of his boat (no thigh straps so no chance of a roll) and was floating downstream. I barked at him to snag my stern grab loop and towed him to shore -- I think he obeyed the "voice of command" before he had a chance to think about it. Once standing on the bank, he opined that he was just fine and hadn't needed my help, etc. I asked him to walk downstream a bit with me and pointed out the 10-foot drop a hundred yards away, just around a blind corner, with the entire river pouring over it. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I barked at him to snag my stern grab loop and towed him to shore -- I think he obeyed the "voice of command" before he had a chance to think about it. Once standing on the bank, he opined that he was just fine and hadn't needed my help, etc. I asked him to walk downstream a bit with me and pointed out the 10-foot drop a hundred yards away, just around a blind corner, with the entire river pouring over it. One of the reasons I love Paddlewise is aptly described above. Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_rockandwater.net> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Mon, 12 May 2008 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Canoe Rescue off Point Defiance in Fast Current On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 02:33:16PM -0700, Craig Jungers wrote: > 3. There were several remarks about the kayak rental place not requiring > customers to be dressed for immersion; especially given the dangerous nature > of the area with strong currents and associated eddy lines and the cold > water. Now that's a problem. Having spent my fair share of time in cold water (I paddle whitewater year-round) I know that even with the right gear, acclimization to cold, and good physical conditioning, it's difficult to cover a substantial distance once the effects set in. Few people appreciate this, though, and they seem to appreciate it even less when they're standing on land on a dry, warm, sunny day. And of course rental shops are disinclined to educate them or to require proper clothing since both would be likely to decrease their business. I think the decision by the rental company to permit those people to go out under those conditions without appropriate gear is the root cause of the incident. Everything that happened afterwards was a consequence of it or of the attempts to fix the ensuing problems. But unless someone with regulatory authority gets involved, there's no economic motivation for the rental shop to change its procedures, and thus, it seems, there's a substantial likelihood that similar incidents will occur in the future. > The implication (or maybe just my inference) is that the > male swimmer might have been somewhat irked. Once Upon A Time, I caught up to a recreational canoeist who'd flipped, come out of his boat (no thigh straps so no chance of a roll) and was floating downstream. I barked at him to snag my stern grab loop and towed him to shore -- I think he obeyed the "voice of command" before he had a chance to think about it. Once standing on the bank, he opined that he was just fine and hadn't needed my help, etc. I asked him to walk downstream a bit with me and pointed out the 10-foot drop a hundred yards away, just around a blind corner, with the entire river pouring over it. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 5/12/2008 7:38:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rsk_at_rockandwater.net writes: I think the decision by the rental company to permit those people to go out under those conditions without appropriate gear is the root cause of the incident. Everything that happened afterwards was a consequence of it or of the attempts to fix the ensuing problems. But unless someone with regulatory authority gets involved, there's no economic motivation for the rental shop to change its procedures, and thus, it seems, there's a substantial likelihood that similar incidents will occur in the future. This is a tiny operation that rents kayaks (SOTS) and runs the concession stand at the same time. They have no drysuits or similar things for sale or rent at this location. I haven't seen their release form. I bet it says they have to stay close, and warns about dangerous currents in the area. If I get a look at the form, I'll post something about the wording. Won't be this weekend, as the beach is in use for a kayak symposium. Pam in Washington State **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 02:53:33AM -0400, Pamvetdr_at_aol.com wrote: > This is a tiny operation that rents kayaks (SOTS) and runs the concession > stand at the same time. They have no drysuits or similar things for > sale or rent at this location. Yeah, I'd guessed at something like that. And I recognize that their business model may depend on putatively minimizing the risk to customers as well as their own liability via waivers, warnings, etc. But maybe that's not a good idea; maybe the business activity they've chosen isn't the best choice for the location they've chosen. Let me draw an analogy with a situation that exists out here in the east. The Shenandoah, Lehigh and (Lower) Youghiogheny rivers all have a substantial number of rafting companies running trips. At nominal flows, the Shenandoah is II-III, the Lehigh is II-III, and the Yough is III-IV. On the first two it's customary to put guides in every raft; on the latter, guides accompany most trips but are usually not in every raft. The reason is simple: it's cheaper. But in my opinion, it's not a good idea, as the Yough is a nontrivial river and features several complex rapids -- including Dimple, where the entire river smashes into a badly undercut rock that's been the site of multiple fatalities. So while I'm aware that upgrading their safety measures to a level I personally think is necessary (guides in every raft on outiftter trips, no rental of rafts for unguided trips) would have an impact on their business model, I don't care. If they have chosen poorly and have then attempted to address the consequences of that poor choice by cutting corners, this is not my problem. My problem is the impact on the river environment and experience, as the ongoing sequence of incidents has drawn the attention of the powers-that-be and there was actually serious consideration given to a proposal to modify one of the rapids (Dimple) following a particularly bad year. More bluntly, they're screwing it up for the rest of us, because when the powers-that-be get involved, as we're all painfully aware, their lack of knowledge combined with their desire to look like they're doing something useful in order to score political points is likely to result in yet another demonstration of the law of unintended consequences. So while I'm sympathetic to anyone running a business that gets people out on the water, as it helps popularize the sport as well as expose people to the environment and maybe hopefully gets them to care about it enough to write checks to American Rivers and the Sierra Club and so on, I'm not entirely supportive of operations that don't provide an acceptable safety margin. Of course, that's just my opinion and I'm by nature conservative about risk, so I understand that others may make a different judgement call about the situation. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_rockandwater.net> wrote: > > > Let me draw an analogy with a situation that exists out here in the > east. The Shenandoah, Lehigh and (Lower) Youghiogheny rivers all have a > substantial number of rafting companies running trips. At nominal flows, > the Shenandoah is II-III, the Lehigh is II-III, and the Yough is III-IV. > On the first two it's customary to put guides in every raft; on the > latter, guides accompany most trips but are usually not in every raft. This is similar to many outfitters here in the PNW. The Deschutes is a III-IV and the Wenatchee is a II-III+. The raft outfitters typically put a guide in every raft on the Wenatchee but just turn 'em loose on the Deschutes. > > > The reason is simple: it's cheaper. But in my opinion, it's not a > good idea, as the Yough is a nontrivial river and features several > complex rapids -- including Dimple, where the entire river smashes > into a badly undercut rock that's been the site of multiple fatalities. Ditto for the Deschutes. I'm sure some of this involves the permitting system which is in effect for the Deschutes but not for the Wenatchee. And I'll admit that I'm not that familiar with rafting operations. But I suspect that if they put a guide on ever raft on the Deschutes their major cost would be liability insurance due to the fact that it has a Class IV and several III+ rapids and if there is a problem with a guided trip, then the guide is going to take the fall; and the company he/she works for. > > So while I'm aware that upgrading their safety measures to a level > I personally think is necessary (guides in every raft on outiftter > trips, no rental of rafts for unguided trips) would have an impact > on their business model, I don't care. Well, speaking strictly for myself, I'd much rather see these unguided trips end because the rafts themselves are full of so many drunken fraternity boys out to show how macho they are. I've mentioned this before, but I've seen a raft a minute go by my campsite and every third raft had a guy standing up in the bow without a PFD on holding on to the painter with one hand and a beer in the other yelling and hollering every time they hit a wave. (As an aside... who was the rocket scientist that decided it was a good idea to sell beer at cheap prices where people buy gasoline for their cars?) The guided trips on the Wenatchee, on the other hand, are mostly families dressed appropriately for the water (supplied by the outfitters) and having a relatively safe adventure. As far as sea kayaking outfitters go, we encountered a large group of young people on a guided trip to Sucia Island from Jones Island. I don't believe anyone was actually wearing a PFD (including the "guides"). Weather was calm and tidal range low, but even so, it made us all uncomfortable. I was just glad my kids weren't on that trip. > > More bluntly, they're screwing it up for the rest of us, because when > the powers-that-be get involved, as we're all painfully aware, their > lack of knowledge combined with their desire to look like they're doing > something useful in order to score political points is likely to result > in yet another demonstration of the law of unintended consequences. > Amen to that. Politicians excel in the "paper solution" and in passing laws that, if they were actually enforced, might do something; but no agency has the budget. They like it even more if they can require some electronic gadget that everyone would be required to buy and wear/mount/carry. Of course, the customers themselves don't like to be told they can't do something since they all seem to believe that they're elite level athletes in practically everything. So politicians would prefer to modify a rapid to make it "safe" rather than require outfitters to guide their customers through it. > > So while I'm sympathetic to anyone running a business that gets people > out on the water, as it helps popularize the sport as well as expose > people to the environment and maybe hopefully gets them to care about > it enough to write checks to American Rivers and the Sierra Club and > so on, I'm not entirely supportive of operations that don't provide > an acceptable safety margin. Of course, that's just my opinion and > I'm by nature conservative about risk, so I understand that others > may make a different judgement call about the situation. > Yup. I couldn't agree more. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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