In a message dated 10/4/2008 7:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, crjungers_at_gmail.com writes: And, as a hedge against an economic meltdown her portfolio is somewhat lacking. Unlike me, Pam is almost fully invested in low volume boats. Even a small person would find it difficult to live comfortably in any of them (except the old, decrepit, white kayak of unknown ancestry). Unlike my Escape which offers room for a sleeping mat and a tiny galley (I'm considering an LED reading lamp), her boats offer little more than performance and tight fit. Perhaps she needs the money to buy a nice cabin cruiser. :) If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't spend it on that! To deliberately change the subject, what types of boats would be in a well appointed kayakers stable? And would responders give an example of each type? These are for you, not for the neighborhood. I would start by suggesting an expedition/touring boat: a distance (speed) boat; an intermediate type for going far in bad seas: a smaller, more nimble boat for exploring nooks and crannies, which may or may not be the same as a surf boat which you would also have; a light weight play boat (perhaps a baidarka?), and at least one whitewater boat for dreaming about. So I have the Arctic Tern 17 foot for expeditions, the Necky Arluk II (If I ever learn how to paddle it) for speed, the Mariner Express for the intermediate boat, the Mariner Sprite for the nook and cranny boat, the Ice Kap for the play boat, and no whitewater boat. I can borrow one, I know someone who used to have a living room full until his wife made him clear them out. Pam in Washington State (yes, the boats ARE for sale- not the Express) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'd like to check out the North Shore, Shore Line for a playboat (16'), perhaps a Aquanaut LV for touring, and a composite high-end surf kayak with fins for surf-play. http://www.northshoreseakayaks.com/ http://www.valleyseakayaks.com/aquanautlv.htm Then again, I keep dreaming about making my own bright-finish kayak with my own hull design, a "hybrid" do-all kayak. Doug Lloyd (who finally has a weekend off) > In a message dated 10/4/2008 7:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > crjungers_at_gmail.com writes: > > And, as a hedge against an economic meltdown her portfolio is somewhat > lacking. Unlike me, Pam is almost fully invested in low volume boats. Even > a small > person would find it difficult to live comfortably in any of them (except > the > old, decrepit, white kayak of unknown ancestry). Unlike my Escape which > offers > room for a sleeping mat and a tiny galley (I'm considering an LED reading > lamp), her boats offer little more than performance and tight fit. > > Perhaps she needs the money to buy a nice cabin cruiser. :) > If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't spend it on that! > > To deliberately change the subject, what types of boats would be in a > well appointed kayakers stable? And would responders give an example of > each > type? These are for you, not for the neighborhood. > > I would start by suggesting an expedition/touring boat: a distance > (speed) boat; an intermediate type for going far in bad seas: a smaller, > more > nimble boat for exploring nooks and crannies, which may or may not be the > same as a > surf boat which you would also have; a light weight play boat (perhaps a > baidarka?), and at least one whitewater boat for dreaming about. > > So I have the Arctic Tern 17 foot for expeditions, the Necky Arluk II > (If > I ever learn how to paddle it) for speed, the Mariner Express for the > intermediate boat, the Mariner Sprite for the nook and cranny boat, the > Ice Kap for > the play boat, and no whitewater boat. I can borrow one, I know someone > who > used to have a living room full until his wife made him clear them out. > Pam in Washington State (yes, the boats ARE for sale- not > the > Express) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:30 AM, <Pamvetdr_at_aol.com> wrote: > > To deliberately change the subject, what types of boats would be in a > well appointed kayakers stable? And would responders give an example of each > type? These are for you, not for the neighborhood. > I know British-style boats are "in" now but I like boats designed and built in Washington and BC (Canada). Here is my fantasy fleet based on Pam's outline: Expedition: Nimbus Telkwa HV. Preferably in Kevlar but only (only!) 62lbs in f/g. Excellent initial *and* secondary stability. Tracks well in high winds and seas. Easy to correct with its Feathercraft rudder but even at 18 '6" (and 25" wide!) the boat feels smaller and nimbler than it has any right to. On edge it turns well without the rudder and turns very well with the rudder. Deck lines are well designed, seating is comfortable, roomy cockpit is easily customized for fit, hatches are tight. Most models have a convenient fabric map shelf that doesn't get in the way. The boat feels rock solid in any weather. Carries a load; trust me. Distance/Speed boat: Mariner II. At 17'11" and only 21" wide the Mariner II is tough and fast. If you can fit into its sliding seat (I can, but only barely) you have unparalleled control over balance in changing winds and seas. Fast! Did I mention that? No skeg or rudder to mess with (or slow you down). Needs flotation unless you have one with bulkheads. Fast! My day-to-day (intermediate) boat is a Mariner Express. At 16' long and only 20.5" wide at the waterlilne (22.5" maximum beam) the Express' size gives it the ability to maneuver in tight places as well as have a good turn of speed. The Express seems to surf on ripples and seems to be able to make course changes psychically (no skeg or rudder); think 5-deg left and before you know it you've done it. Big enough to carry a week's load of camping gear but if you paddle one empty you should either have flotation fore and aft or, like Pam, have one with a stern bulkhead and compartment. The Express also excels in riding up and over the waves and not through them giving the paddler a nice dry ride. Also a pretty quick ride. Runner up for intermediate would be the Nimbus Solander. Well balanced and light (in kevlar). Just a tad small for me. Nooks and Crannies and surf boat: Mariner Coaster. These are truly legendary kayaks (immortalized in films, books and stories about the Tsunami Rangers). If you never go farther than 20nm a day and don't spend more than a few days camping, the Coaster would be all you'd need in a kayak. It's stable enough for my favorite 7-year-old to consider "her" boat but almost as nimble as a white water kayak in rock gardens and tight places. Tracks well, edges well (the 7-year-old intuitively edges the Coaster... I never taught her how to do it... she just figured it out), is comfortable once you get a decent seat and backband, and paddles easily at 4mph all day long. At the sea kayaking seminar in Port Townsend a few weeks ago I parked next to the Tsunami Ranger who was giving the talk on rock gardening. When she walked past my car (with my Coaster on top) she patted the Coaster on its butt and smiled. Only thing I'd change is give it another inch in cockpit length. But once I'm in, it's all good. White water boat for rock play: Perception Pirouette Super Sport. Available all over for $200 or so and tough as nails (my sons' boat sailed off the roof of our SUV at 50mph 7 years ago and it's still good to go), easy to roll, maneuverable but still holds a course (if you are alert). Only downside is that you really should be under 190lbs and 6' to be comfortable. Long legs are a severe handicap in this boat. Runner-up for w/w rock play: Dagger RPM or RPM Max (for those over 230lbs). They've sold more RPMs than any other white water kayak. Available around $400 used, tough, roomy, maneuverable, easy to roll. Hard to paddle straight. Ocean Play Boat: George Gronseth's new Illusion. Makes my heart go pitty-pat when I see George paddle his. They are using a new method of customizing the volume for the paddler when the boat is built by raising or lowering the deck-to-hull join; very clever. Lots of rocker for maneuverability. Cons: Might be wet; has a skeg. So there you have *my* idea of a perfect stable of sea kayaks. How many of them do I own? My wife thinks "too many". She might be right. If you lined up every sea kayak owned by my immediate family (me, my wife, my kids) then we have a 115 foot boat!!! Maybe I can join the yacht club. :) Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). 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I see Sterling has improved his site a bit. What's with the Illusion? Tell me more (please). Doug Lloyd > On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:30 AM, <Pamvetdr_at_aol.com> wrote: > >> >> To deliberately change the subject, what types of boats would be in >> a >> well appointed kayakers stable? And would responders give an example of >> each >> type? These are for you, not for the neighborhood. >> > > I know British-style boats are "in" now but I like boats designed and > built > in Washington and BC (Canada). Here is my fantasy fleet based on Pam's > outline: > > Expedition: Nimbus Telkwa HV. Preferably in Kevlar but only (only!) 62lbs > in > f/g. Excellent initial *and* secondary stability. Tracks well in high > winds > and seas. Easy to correct with its Feathercraft rudder but even at 18 '6" > (and 25" wide!) the boat feels smaller and nimbler than it has any right > to. > On edge it turns well without the rudder and turns very well with the > rudder. Deck lines are well designed, seating is comfortable, roomy > cockpit > is easily customized for fit, hatches are tight. Most models have a > convenient fabric map shelf that doesn't get in the way. The boat feels > rock > solid in any weather. Carries a load; trust me. > > Distance/Speed boat: Mariner II. At 17'11" and only 21" wide the Mariner > II > is tough and fast. If you can fit into its sliding seat (I can, but only > barely) you have unparalleled control over balance in changing winds and > seas. Fast! Did I mention that? No skeg or rudder to mess with (or slow > you > down). Needs flotation unless you have one with bulkheads. Fast! > > My day-to-day (intermediate) boat is a Mariner Express. At 16' long and > only > 20.5" wide at the waterlilne (22.5" maximum beam) the Express' size gives > it > the ability to maneuver in tight places as well as have a good turn of > speed. The Express seems to surf on ripples and seems to be able to make > course changes psychically (no skeg or rudder); think 5-deg left and > before > you know it you've done it. Big enough to carry a week's load of camping > gear but if you paddle one empty you should either have flotation fore and > aft or, like Pam, have one with a stern bulkhead and compartment. The > Express also excels in riding up and over the waves and not through them > giving the paddler a nice dry ride. Also a pretty quick ride. > > Runner up for intermediate would be the Nimbus Solander. Well balanced and > light (in kevlar). Just a tad small for me. > > Nooks and Crannies and surf boat: Mariner Coaster. These are truly > legendary > kayaks (immortalized in films, books and stories about the Tsunami > Rangers). > If you never go farther than 20nm a day and don't spend more than a few > days > camping, the Coaster would be all you'd need in a kayak. It's stable > enough > for my favorite 7-year-old to consider "her" boat but almost as nimble as > a > white water kayak in rock gardens and tight places. Tracks well, edges > well > (the 7-year-old intuitively edges the Coaster... I never taught her how to > do it... she just figured it out), is comfortable once you get a decent > seat > and backband, and paddles easily at 4mph all day long. At the sea kayaking > seminar in Port Townsend a few weeks ago I parked next to the Tsunami > Ranger > who was giving the talk on rock gardening. When she walked past my car > (with > my Coaster on top) she patted the Coaster on its butt and smiled. Only > thing > I'd change is give it another inch in cockpit length. But once I'm in, > it's > all good. > > White water boat for rock play: Perception Pirouette Super Sport. > Available > all over for $200 or so and tough as nails (my sons' boat sailed off the > roof of our SUV at 50mph 7 years ago and it's still good to go), easy to > roll, maneuverable but still holds a course (if you are alert). Only > downside is that you really should be under 190lbs and 6' to be > comfortable. > Long legs are a severe handicap in this boat. > > Runner-up for w/w rock play: Dagger RPM or RPM Max (for those over > 230lbs). > They've sold more RPMs than any other white water kayak. Available around > $400 used, tough, roomy, maneuverable, easy to roll. Hard to paddle > straight. > > Ocean Play Boat: George Gronseth's new Illusion. Makes my heart go > pitty-pat > when I see George paddle his. They are using a new method of customizing > the > volume for the paddler when the boat is built by raising or lowering the > deck-to-hull join; very clever. Lots of rocker for maneuverability. Cons: > Might be wet; has a skeg. > > So there you have *my* idea of a perfect stable of sea kayaks. How many of > them do I own? My wife thinks "too many". She might be right. If you lined > up every sea kayak owned by my immediate family (me, my wife, my kids) > then > we have a 115 foot boat!!! > > Maybe I can join the yacht club. :) > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > I see Sterling has improved his site a bit. What's with the Illusion? Tell > me more (please). > > The Illusion might be right up your alley. It looks like an Ice Kap at first glance but it has a *lot* more rocker both bow and stern. Here is a link to George Gronseth's Kayak Academy (he's a sales agent for both the Ice Kap and the Illusion... both built by Sterling): http://www.kayakacademy.com/catalog/Illusion.html The Illusion is George's design and they've come up with a clever system they call "CV" for "Custom Volume". They've designed the hull and deck so that they can reduce or increase the volume fairly easily... and they have a creative little cockpit simulator that can give you a good idea of what volume you feel most comfortable with. I first saw the Illusion at the Tacoma kayak get-together last summer and then at the Port Townsend Seminar I watched George's presentation of paddling techniques (Paddling in Wind) during which he used his Illusion as he demonstrated various techniques. I guess it needs to be said that George Gronseth makes it look easy anyway. At the beginning of his presentation he promised that he'd offer seven ways to maneuver your kayak in wind that did not include ruddering with your paddle or extra paddle strokes and he held to that. Ninety minutes of really good information. The Illusion performed well during his demo and several of us wondered if most of the spectators were aware that the large rocker in the boat made it unlikely that many of *them* would be able to duplicate George's maneuverings; or at the least do it half so adroitly. I have not paddled the Illusion but I like its looks. Pam has paddled it and she told me a few minutes ago on the phone that she thought it was right up there with what she thinks are the top boats (her Express, the Ice Kap and the Illusion). I know you now have your LV Nordkap, Doug, but you might want to take a look at the Illusion. Seems to me that it would fit the bill for a boat that works the way you seem to like them to work. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Runner up for intermediate would be the Nimbus Solander. Well balanced and > light (in kevlar). Just a tad small for me. > > Nooks and Crannies and surf boat: Mariner Coaster. Craig, would you suggest any intermediate runner up for runner up ;-) ? Something as light as kevlar Solander, less "surf boat" (longer) than Coaster, with bulkheads and rudder, and not costing a fortune? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:46 PM, alex <al.m_at_3web.net> wrote: > > > Craig, would you suggest any intermediate runner up for runner up ;-) ? > Something as light as kevlar Solander, less "surf boat" (longer) than > Coaster, with bulkheads and rudder, and not costing a fortune? > > Well... to address the last point first; craigslist is your friend. Most of us can't afford a "stable" of kayaks if we buy them all brand new. Decide what you want and watch craigslist til the boat you want shows up. Some people will say that this cuts kayak shops out of the loop but my feelling is that, often as not, the person selling the boat is ready to buy a new boat from his dealer. At any rate, someone will buy that used boat; it might as well be you. Also, once you decide on your boat, tell your friends to be on the lookout for that boat. My son-in-law bought his Nimbus Telkwa in kevlar from people who had just moved away from Orcas Island. They were selling several boats from their former fleet and a friend discovered that they had the Telkwa they'd sell too (it hadn't been advertised) and called my son-in-law knowing he was looking for that particular boat. Michael bought it for $800! It was faded and the seat was toast but it handled perfectly and we brought it home the next weekend. A Telkwa in kevlar goes for over $4,000... he bought it for $800. This tip goes for accessories like drysuits, paddles, PFDs, spray decks, etc. too. You'd be amazed at how many people would be willing to sell something if you only ask. Pygmy boats has the Coho for about $900 in kit form. It's 17-feet but receives rave reviews for handling and sportiness and is very light weight. Their Arctic Tern would also be a suitable boat for most occasions. If you're not interested in building a kit, these appear on craigslist periodically at prices ranging from not much more than the kit to up over $2,000. Pam just happens to have two Pygmy boats she could be talked out of. Necky's are built in the northwest corner of North America and offer models in both composite (fiberglass or kevlar) and polymer with the polymer versions considerably cheaper than the composite versions. The polymer boats, while not light in weight, are certainly easy on the pocketbook. Their Chatham 16 runs about $1700 in polymer. There are some caveats to buying plastic boats regarding UV exposure issues and issues regarding shape stability in longer kayaks. But the price is right and the performance is good. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/4/2008 6:50:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, al.m_at_3web.net writes: Craig, would you suggest any intermediate runner up for runner up ;-) ? Something as light as kevlar Solander, less "surf boat" (longer) than Coaster, with bulkheads and rudder, and not costing a fortune? Craig keeps quoting me, so I'm going to put in my two cents worth here. These meet the criteria except rudders. The Impel line has the Currituck and the Montauk as nice, intermediate size and finely performing boats. I would look at the Force Cat 3 or Force Cat 4 for a faster touring boat. Of course, that's all for my body size. Different size bodies need different size boats. Intermediate would also include the Tempest 16.5 and Tempest 17. Interestingly enough, all of these are described on the _www.kayakacademy.com_ (http://www.kayakacademy.com) site, click on the Sea Kayaks link under Kayak Store. Take a good look at the picture of the Illusion under the Sterling Kayaks description, so little of the boat is in the water due to the rocker. You can probably reasonably expect to find any of these used other than the Illusion or Ice Kap, Those may be challenging. There are many good kayaks around now. Just one clue. If you do go to look at a kayak (as I did) and step in to sit down, and the owner says "don't stand on the boat!" while it is making alarming squeaky noises, and he then tries to pass off the separating seam by the cockpit as "easy to fix!", run, do not walk, away. Try rental boats before you buy. Ask the shops where there are rentals of what you are interested in, if they don't have it. If you belong to a local club (your locality, not mine), see if you can try some of the other members boats. This, of course, is after asking their opinion of their kayak and the other kayaks, and hanging on their every word, and showing great respect. Or you could just offer them money. Either way, have fun looking! Pam in Washington State **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Today I was in San Diego for the celebration of Aqua Adventures' 20th year. Congratulations to Jen Kelck, a great supporter of our kayak community!! Got to paddle around in a Tempest 170 and really liked it. Maneuverable and easy to roll. If I can find one for a good price, I think I'd buy it and sadly sell the ol' Lollygagger. I imagine I'm a bit over the optimum weight for the boat, but what's new!! When I got home, my RPM Max had arrived from Denver and was sitting in my garage. That gives me 5 boats, I almost feel like a real kayaker. My RPM, Delphin and Solstice GTS have only set me back a combined $860, not too bad. I really want a good all around boat though, so liquidation is in order. Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> wrote: > > I really want a good all around boat though, so liquidation is in order. You're just baiting me here... aren't you? :P Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:30:18 EDT, Pamvetdr_at_aol.com said: > In a message dated 10/4/2008 7:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > crjungers_at_gmail.com writes: > To deliberately change the subject, what types of boats would be in a > well appointed kayakers stable? And would responders give an example of > each type? These are for you, not for the neighborhood. > > I would start by suggesting an expedition/touring boat: a distance > (speed) boat; an intermediate type for going far in bad seas: a smaller, > more nimble boat for exploring nooks and crannies, which may or may not be the > same as a surf boat which you would also have; a light weight play boat (perhaps a > baidarka?), and at least one whitewater boat for dreaming about. Everyone still seems to be sitting inside their boats ;-) If you are looking for a distance/speed/exercise boat, as a day tripper, try a surf ski ;-) I spend most of my time sitting on my boat. I personally prefer the surf ski to a sit inside kayak. If I screw up and swim the boat has venturi bailers, simply flip it back upright, climb back on and start paddling, the cockpit self empties in minutes.. The boat also only weighs 30 pounds so parking a couple hundred yards from the put in isn't a big deal, just toss the boat on a shoulder and walk down the street. dropping the boat or playing in rocks would not go well... There are a whole bunch of good intermediate level boats available - Huki S1-R, Think Evo, Fenn XT. For the more ambitious there are tippier/faster boats (huki s1-x/special, fenn mako 6, Epic V10). For me, sight seeing pace is about 5 mph, workout pace is a little above 6 mph. I've seen speeds above 10 mph playing on waves - which is extremely fun... Kirk -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:17 AM, Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com> wrote: > > Everyone still seems to be sitting inside their boats ;-) > > If you are looking for a distance/speed/exercise boat, as a day tripper, > try a surf ski ;-) > > Interesting that you should mention this. Kayak seminars like the one in Port Townsend often give some insight in the direction kayaking is going... or at least insight into where kayak manufacturers think it's going. This year it was pretty obviously British-style boats; the expedition-style boats were decidedly fewer in number. I wondered aloud what next year's boats would look like and someone mentioned surf skis. I'd certainly like one on the lake here for a super-fast paddle to my grandkids' house. What we need are more stories about trips on surf skis (that don't turn out tragically). Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kirk, What about these surf ski/sea kayaks like the Nemo? Maybe a better hybrid for dedicated sea kayakers wanting to go fast. Doug Lloyd > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:17 AM, Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com> wrote: > >> >> Everyone still seems to be sitting inside their boats ;-) >> >> If you are looking for a distance/speed/exercise boat, as a day tripper, >> try a surf ski ;-) >> >> > Interesting that you should mention this. Kayak seminars like the one in > Port Townsend often give some insight in the direction kayaking is > going... > or at least insight into where kayak manufacturers think it's going. This > year it was pretty obviously British-style boats; the expedition-style > boats > were decidedly fewer in number. I wondered aloud what next year's boats > would look like and someone mentioned surf skis. > > I'd certainly like one on the lake here for a super-fast paddle to my > grandkids' house. What we need are more stories about trips on surf skis > (that don't turn out tragically). > > Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 00:33:04 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> said: > Kirk, > What about these surf ski/sea kayaks like the Nemo? Maybe a better hybrid > for dedicated sea kayakers wanting to go fast. For me it's a simple safety decision. It takes me approximately 5 seconds to remount my surf ski. 75 seconds after falling off I'm paddling again with a fully empty boat. Continuing in the safety vein, I'm also more likely to dress for the water temp since I know my lower body is going to be wet. The Nemo is a fast hull. But it doesn't self empty after a blown roll. The Van Dusen Mohican is another hybrid, it's got a self bailer, but it's cockpit area is quite large and it holds more water than I would like in those "wave in the lap" conditions. For rest breaks and "I'm in trouble" extra stability, on the surf ski I can drop both legs into the water. It's tough to do that with a traditional kayak. Sure a paddle float could be deployed, but that's tough when the "trouble" is only going to be 100 yards or 10 seconds, conditions such as a multiple large wakes, or rounding an exposed point. There are definitely conditions where I would prefer an enclosed boat, the open water equivalent of whitewater, but for go fast day tripping I'll stay outside ;-) Probably the most fun on the surf ski is when the wind is blowing and you can find a downwind run for some wonderful wave riding. I do love to roll, and one of these days will build a greenland boat so I can spend more quality upside down time. Kirk -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I spend most of my time sitting on my boat. I personally prefer the > surf ski to a sit inside kayak. If I screw up and swim the boat has > venturi bailers, simply flip it back upright, climb back on and start > paddling, the cockpit self empties in minutes.. Kirk, I am getting mixed advice on the ease of getting back on a surf ski. There have been several local reports of experienced skiers who could not remount in rough waters and had to be rescued. Can you really easily and reliably climb back on in at least moderately windy and rough conditions? Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Also of interest Sean Morley mention he switch to his Nordkapp LV over the rapier 20 as the rapier plunger into moderately rough seas _when fully loaded_. I suppose the faster kayaks and surfskis aren't prime movers for actual camping out of one's kayak, unless someone knows one that does well (holds gear and is fast). Doug Lloyd >> I spend most of my time sitting on my boat. I personally prefer the >> surf ski to a sit inside kayak. If I screw up and swim the boat has >> venturi bailers, simply flip it back upright, climb back on and start >> paddling, the cockpit self empties in minutes.. > > Kirk, > I am getting mixed advice on the ease of getting back on a surf ski. > There have been several local reports of experienced skiers who could not > remount in rough waters and had to be rescued. Can you really easily and > reliably climb back on in at least moderately windy and rough conditions? > > Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:57:54 -0700, "Doug Lloyd" <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> said: > > Kirk, > > I am getting mixed advice on the ease of getting back on a surf ski. > > There have been several local reports of experienced skiers who could not > > remount in rough waters and had to be rescued. Can you really easily and > > reliably climb back on in at least moderately windy and rough conditions? Remounting a surf ski definitely takes practice. The most difficult remount that I did was in the surf zone, with waves with six foot plus faces and about 8 seconds between waves. My remount is to point the bow into the most significant oncoming waves, tip the boat on edge, jump across the boat and sit side saddle in the seat, then sculling on the side opposite my feet, swing one leg into position and start paddling. That's on my 17" beam round bottom boat. With a wider boat you can kick up onto the boat, place your paddle across the foot straps, then holding both footstraps pull yourself up and sit "cowboy style" with legs straddling the boat, You can then start paddling with both legs in the water - the sides on my mako millenium are too high for this so I prefer to mount side saddle. For higher wind conditions I'm told that it works best to have the stern into the wind, I haven't had enough difficulty when remounting to turn the boat downwind versus upwind. Difficulty in remounting a surf ski is very dependent on the hull design - a combination of how high the sides are and how tippy the boat is when at rest. My wife's Fenn XT has low sides, when in the water next to that boat you can lean the hull and put water into the cockpit, remounting is simple as the boat almost scoops you up when you slide into the seat. My Mako Millenium has high sides and a round bottom, the only remount I can do consistantly is a side saddle remount. My old futura carrera I would do cowboy remounts on - the rear deck was almost flush to the water. I could comfortably remount the carrera in under 5 seconds. As with rolling an experienced paddler doesn't necessarily mean the paddler is an expert at rolling/remounting. Earlier this summer of the best local paddlers tipped over in a Rhode Island race. He hadn't tipped over, or practiced remounts for several years, so it took him five plus minutes to get back on the boat. He was a little fatigued when he tipped over and multiple remount attempts did not help. Kirk -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Also of interest Sean Morley mention he switch to his Nordkapp LV over the > rapier 20 as the rapier plunger into moderately rough seas _when fully > loaded_. I suppose the faster kayaks and surfskis aren't prime movers for > actual camping out of one's kayak, unless someone knows one that does well > (holds gear and is fast). > > Doug Lloyd Doug, Wouldn't Morley have been better off in a regular Nordkapp rather than the LV for this trip? I understand that the LV is significantly slower than the full size Nordkapp due to much more rocker. Seems to me the LV is more designed for playing in rough water, as opposed to traveling efficiently through rough water. Joe O'Blenis made a better choice with the Greenlander. (Personally, I think a rudder is a big advantage if one is paddling many hours/day in windy conditions.) In addition to the Rapier plunging, it is less stable than the NLV, and I understand that is also a reason Morley chose not to use it. And he is as expert a paddler as one can find. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Maybe a CD Expedition with a big o' rudder. Don't know. I have not actually added up Sean's days, so don't know how close he is to a new record. I've done many stretches of the ewest coast under 40 to 45 knot downwind conditions. You do need to be an expert without the benefit of a rudder, in my opinion. I've also done some of those stretches in winter off the coast and know I much prefer a semi-round hull. It will be interesting to see how freda does in the barton kayak around Australia. I still think Vancouver Island can be done in 2 weeks under favourable conditions in the right boat (surfski or fast double). I hope Joe comes back for another attempt too (easier to shout "Go Joe go!" than "Go Sean!"). :-) Doug Lloyd > >> Also of interest Sean Morley mention he switch to his Nordkapp LV over >> the >> rapier 20 as the rapier plunger into moderately rough seas _when fully >> loaded_. I suppose the faster kayaks and surfskis aren't prime movers for >> actual camping out of one's kayak, unless someone knows one that does >> well (holds gear and is fast). >> >> Doug Lloyd > > Doug, > Wouldn't Morley have been better off in a regular Nordkapp rather than the > LV for this trip? I understand that the LV is significantly slower than > the full size Nordkapp due to much more rocker. Seems to me the LV is > more designed for playing in rough water, as opposed to traveling > efficiently through rough water. Joe O'Blenis made a better choice with > the Greenlander. (Personally, I think a rudder is a big advantage if one > is paddling many hours/day in windy conditions.) > > In addition to the Rapier plunging, it is less stable than the NLV, and I > understand that is also a reason Morley chose not to use it. And he is as > expert a paddler as one can find. > > Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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