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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:28:39 -0800
Somehow I managed to get onto the Folbot mailing list but since it's not
intrusive or anything I've either read them as they come across my desktop
or archived them if I wasn't in the mood or didn't have time. Today I looked
through one of their emails and discovered that they have a 20% discount
sale on their "Cooper", a 16-1/2 foot folding sea kayak. They're only $1395.
Probably plus shipping, etc. But jeez. that's a huge discount from some of
the other folders which can cost upwards of $4,000.

I know Dave Kruger has a couple Folbots but they aren't the "Cooper". I'm
just wondering if anyone has paddled one and what they think of it. They no
longer come in two bags but just one and it appears that their tensioning
system is pretty spiffy. In short, I'm pretty impressed. And if my wife
hadn't already told me that I have enough kayaks, I'd probably be trying to
weasel my way into one. But I'm not that kind of guy, no sirreee.

So anyway... who has one or has paddled one? What do you think of it? Where
have you paddled it?

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:10:10 -0800
So, Craig, where are you planning on hiding your new "Cooper"?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Jungers" <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak


> Somehow I managed to get onto the Folbot mailing list but since it's not
> intrusive or anything I've either read them as they come across my desktop
> or archived them if I wasn't in the mood or didn't have time. Today I 
> looked
> through one of their emails and discovered that they have a 20% discount
> sale on their "Cooper", a 16-1/2 foot folding sea kayak. They're only 
> $1395.
> Probably plus shipping, etc. But jeez. that's a huge discount from some of
> the other folders which can cost upwards of $4,000.
>
> I know Dave Kruger has a couple Folbots but they aren't the "Cooper". I'm
> just wondering if anyone has paddled one and what they think of it. They 
> no
> longer come in two bags but just one and it appears that their tensioning
> system is pretty spiffy. In short, I'm pretty impressed. And if my wife
> hadn't already told me that I have enough kayaks, I'd probably be trying 
> to
> weasel my way into one. But I'm not that kind of guy, no sirreee.
>
> So anyway... who has one or has paddled one? What do you think of it? 
> Where
> have you paddled it?
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:37:23 -0800
Craig Jungers wrote:

> I know Dave Kruger has a couple Folbots but they aren't the "Cooper". 

Wrong.  I have one of the earliest ones, before the added tensioning 
system, and with the old, lightweight, not-so-very-abrasion-resistant skin.

They are enormously improved from then, with much tougher (but heavier) 
hypalon skin, good tensioning to reduce flex (a common folder attribute), 
better coaming, and an incredibly better seat.

You will get a lot of analysis, some of it from the "homer" crowd who think 
Folbot can do no wrong, but the bulk of it from more hard-headed folks who 
give honest ratings to their Coopers, on the Folbot Forum: 
http://www.folbotforum.com/

Frankly, though, you would not like the width, the enormous cockpit, or the 
low-performance hull.  The Cooper is a good folder, but to get a high 
performance folder, you need to pay Feathercraft prices.  A Paddlewiser 
named Alex who lives in BC should respond with a focused critique of 
folders.  Alex just sprung for a brand new Feathercraft K-1, the folder 
that probably comes closest to what you might like, Craig.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:14:23 -0800
After I read their blurb on the 'net I went out and googled the Cooper for
reviews and found a few that talked about "good initial stability for such a
narrow kayak"... it's a 24" wide kayak, for cryin' out loud. So ya, I got
the feeling that it's only going to frustrate me after paddling my boats.
Too bad though. I'm pretty sure my wife is not gonna go for letting me buy a
K1. Maybe Pam will give me one for Christmas. LOL. (That's gonna get me a
nasty note!)

I took an ancient Folbot around the Bowron Lakes in 1972 and it was a real
experience on the portages I can tell you. But it was a good boat in an era
where there weren't many kayaks anywhere. At that point we had Rangers tell
us they'd never seen a kayak on the lakes.  I'd like a folder, I think,
provided it fit the bill. But I'm sure that the Cooper, at $1300, would make
a good ride for lots of people. They cut some corners and an owner probably
needs to customize one and add a few details (like deck rigging) but that's
a lot of bang for the buck in a folder. There are some satisfied users on
paddling.net.

Didn't you buy two of the little Citibots? Or am I confusing you with
someone else?

Craig

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote:

> Craig Jungers wrote:
>
>  I know Dave Kruger has a couple Folbots but they aren't the "Cooper".
>>
>
> Wrong.  I have one of the earliest ones, before the added tensioning
> system, and with the old, lightweight, not-so-very-abrasion-resistant skin.
>
> They are enormously improved from then, with much tougher (but heavier)
> hypalon skin, good tensioning to reduce flex (a common folder attribute),
> better coaming, and an incredibly better seat.
>
> You will get a lot of analysis, some of it from the "homer" crowd who think
> Folbot can do no wrong, but the bulk of it from more hard-headed folks who
> give honest ratings to their Coopers, on the Folbot Forum:
> http://www.folbotforum.com/
>
> Frankly, though, you would not like the width, the enormous cockpit, or the
> low-performance hull.  The Cooper is a good folder, but to get a high
> performance folder, you need to pay Feathercraft prices.  A Paddlewiser
> named Alex who lives in BC should respond with a focused critique of
> folders.  Alex just sprung for a brand new Feathercraft K-1, the folder that
> probably comes closest to what you might like, Craig.
>
> --
> Dave Kruger
> Astoria, OR
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:30:09 -0800
Craig Jungers wrote:

> Didn't you buy two of the little Citibots? Or am I confusing you with 
> someone else?

No.  Somebody else.  The Citibot fits an interesting niche:  truly adapted 
for urban paddling, and perhaps one the few folders actually light enough 
and compact enough for use on public transport.  Citibots are screaming out 
the door at Folbot.  If you dial up the Folbot Forum link and hit the 
Citibot section, there is a nice set of photos of a guy using one in 
Melbourne, OZ.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Folbot "Cooper" kayak
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:49:47 -0800
> Frankly, though, you would not like the width, the enormous cockpit, or
the
> low-performance hull.  The Cooper is a good folder, but to get a high
> performance folder, you need to pay Feathercraft prices.  A Paddlewiser
> named Alex who lives in BC should respond with a focused critique of
> folders.  Alex just sprung for a brand new Feathercraft K-1, the folder
> that probably comes closest to what you might like, Craig.

Got tired of focused critique; particularly, regarding Folbots ;-)... the
more so as Folbots are apparently now on faster lane of innovations than
Feathercraft.

Yes, I've bought a K1. This is relatively a high-volume folder, about 26"
beam, and I've bought ot for multiday remote trips. It is, I think, slower
than Cooper (and more rugged, speaking of both frame and skin). Though, last
version of Cooper with good old Hypalon hull should be acceptably good (with
optional hull protection strips). Dave has earlier version, and it still has
no holes, I believe.

No, I didn't pay Feahtercraft prices (almost). The factory sold me a
discounted hull (cosmetic blemishes on the hull only, deck and everything
else was in usual perfect condition). I went to the factory and it was
cosmetic indeed. Probably, won't show on the black hull at all, after 3 or 4
years. Still a bizarr price, even after $500 discount.

The folders closest to hardshells in performance are FC, yes, but I would
rather think FC Wisper (short trips) or FC Khatsalano (longer trips). Check
www.feathercraft.com for specs.  Weight is shown "stripped", and all these
boats weigh about 50 lbs in backpack with rudder (or 36-38 lbs sans backpack
and rudder).

Folbot has sales every year, sometimes 20% discount, sometimes freee
shipping. No such luck with FC.  And cosmetic blemishes are sometimes more
than what I would consider "cosmetic".
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