G'Day, We were practising rescues today in the shark infested waters off the coast of Sydney. Actually there were an unusual number of dolphins present and I'm told thats a good sign that there are few if any sharks around - but is there any sound basis for such a belief? Anyway we decided to try out the hand of God rescue and were suprised at how easy it was, provided you could get to the rescuee in time. Two questions: when doing this rescue 1. Is it good practice to bring the victim up while holding them laid back on the deck? As you might expect reducing the center of gravity in this way made the rescue easier, but we weren't sure if there were other less desirable consequences. It could also be a good position for subsequent CPR or M to M. though it might be necessary to provide support for the back on some kayaks. 2. Can anyone relate stories of when they have had to use such a rescue? One of the concerns we had was how little time there was to get to the victim before they might drown and we did wonder if this rescue was just an exercise or had demonstrable applications. Be glad to hear of peoples experiences with this. Cheers, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
During one of the first rescue sessions I did with CKF, we practiced the HOG rescue. I was surprised at how easy it was for a couple of us newbies. Still, I don't see it being of much use other than with an unconscious victim. I don't see anyone getting to someone on time after realizing they aren't coming up on their own. Still it's nice to know it can be done. Here's a couple photos I took with Duane being the victim. I thought he made such a good looking corpse! http://www.sandmarks.net/graphics/HOG1.jpg http://www.sandmarks.net/graphics/HOG2.jpg Mark -----Original Message----- Anyway we decided to try out the hand of God rescue and were suprised at how easy it was, provided you could get to the rescuee in time. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We had a student in one of our basic classes who capsized unexpectedly, panicked and felt he was trapped (even after a thorough and successful wet exit practice). He was rescued by an alert instructor by means of the HOG. It's a good skill to have. I would caution that depending on the boats involved and the relative sizes of the paddlers, the HOG rescue can be difficult, and is worthy of practice. A small person trying this on a very large victim with a large boat may have difficulty with it. It's also worth trying it with a bow to stern boat orientation, as I think it can be a little more difficult that way, and in a real situation you may not want to take the time to attain the bow-bow orientation. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sanders Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:06 PM To: rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com; PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hand of God rescue, sharks ands dolphins During one of the first rescue sessions I did with CKF, we practiced the HOG rescue. I was surprised at how easy it was for a couple of us newbies. Still, I don't see it being of much use other than with an unconscious victim. I don't see anyone getting to someone on time after realizing they aren't coming up on their own. Still it's nice to know it can be done. Here's a couple photos I took with Duane being the victim. I thought he made such a good looking corpse! http://www.sandmarks.net/graphics/HOG1.jpg http://www.sandmarks.net/graphics/HOG2.jpg Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
During one of the first rescue sessions I did with CKF, we practiced the HOG rescue. I was surprised at how easy it was for a couple of us newbies. Still, I don't see it being of much use other than with an unconscious victim. I don't see anyone getting to someone on time after realizing they aren't coming up on their own. I have always felt the same way about the re-enter and roll and the Eskimo rescues, although I have heard countless stories from folks who claim to have used these techniques in "real" situations. Regardless, I believe that one purpose of learning and practicing a variety of different rescues is to be able to have options available for "improvised" rescues. For instance, when doing classes I have encountered a number of people who were too big and too weak to climb back into the boat from the water, even with assistance. It is my job to make this a positive experience for the student and make it look easy. One way I have done this is to use a modified version of the HOG rescue, by filling the students boat with water and floating them into the cockpit, and then with their help is is pretty easy to right the boat and pump it out. You don't get any bonus points for technique when performing a kayak rescue - anything that works. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott Hilliard wrote: > [snip] I believe that one purpose of learning and practicing a variety > of different rescues is to be able to have options available for > "improvised" rescues. For instance, when doing classes I have > encountered a number of people who were too big and too weak to climb > back into the boat from the water, even with assistance. It is my job to > make this a positive experience for the student and make it look easy. > One way I have done this is to use a modified version of the HOG > rescue, by filling the students boat with water and floating them into > the cockpit, and then with their help is is pretty easy to right the > boat and pump it out. Scott, that is an inspired use of the HOG rescue. I have always relied on a weighted sling around the cockpit rim (under the coaming lip) so folks with poor upper body strength for their body mass can step into the sling and use their stronger leg muscles to get onto the back deck, and then back in. Often, however, they slip off and have to repeat the maneuver ... which tires them all the more. In addition, sometimes they have trouble engaging a foot in the sling. I will definitely try this out in my next practice session. Thanks for the tip. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Scott Hilliard wrote: > >> >> One way I have done this is to use a modified version of the HOG >> rescue, by filling the students boat with water and floating them >> into >> the cockpit, and then with their help is is pretty easy to right the >> boat and pump it out. I was taught this method by Marsha Henson who now owns Sea Kayak Georgia, USA. We have many older, weak, heavy paddlers in our local club. I used this method to float a 287 pound man into his kayak and rotate him up. It wasn't easy due to the paddler being stiff and unable to hug the deck. His head acted like a huge counterweight and really inhibited his rotation up. I weigh 163 and am not particularly strong so it came down to technique. Keeping the victim low to the deck seems critical with a large victim. If the victim and rescuer are similar in size it is pretty painless. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: "I have always relied on a weighted sling around the cockpit rim (under the coaming lip) so folks with poor upper body strength for their body mass can step into the sling and use their stronger leg muscles to get onto the back deck, and then back in." I use the sling as well. Like I said, it's nice to have options :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have heard of two instances of this rescue being used, both in Deception Pass in Washington State. First was a capsize where the person could not or would not exit for some reason. The first rescuer hit a bad current (whirlpool situation) and was whisked away when within a couple of feet of her boat. The second rescuer put some speed on, got there and straightened the boat up, got the persons head out of the water, and could get her upright from there. Perhaps it's not technically a Hand of God if they aren't unconscious, but I suspect this person wasn't of much help by then. Second was an entrapment with the pull strap on a women's relief zipper. It caught somewhere in the seat set up. I don't know if it was a hung seat or a foam seat with back band; or where the pull caught. This prevented a wet exit after a capsize, and ending with the kayaker being cut out of the drysuit/ boat, by the rescuer. I think this involved a Hand of God and cutting the zipper out of the drysuit, at least partially. At some point I'm sure getting her head out of the water was considered a good idea. Please remember I have both of these by word of mouth. I do know who was involved in the second situation and could refer an interested party to that person, if more information was needed. I'm not aware of any concerns about sharks in Deception Pass (though that would make the Deception Pass Dash more interesting, what?) Pam in Washington State **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi I used the HOG (i prefer calling it a trapped paddler rescue) once on a whitewater trip. A young woman capsized and became disoriented trying to wet exit. I was following her by 10 to 15 seconds and once I realized she was not coming out on her own, I used the HOG to get her upright. Received a nice thank you hug. On another occasion when teaching a course a woman capsized, was disoriented and couldn't wet exit. A friend of mine saw her and used the HOG to get her upright. The HOG rescue, like other types of rescues, is worth practicing. It's another tool in your rescue tool kit. The rescue can be very challenging for some people who don't have a lot of upper body strength. One of things I teach people is that the rescue is a brute strength rescue. Grab and pull on anything you can get hold of. Second, you may not be able to get the "victim" upright, but you do want to do your best to get their head out of the water so they can breath - air is good for you. Finally, an option on the HOG is to reach under the kayak and release the person's spray skirt and attempt to free them from the kayak. happy new year sid In a message dated 1/4/2009 1:45:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, qajaq_at_nwlink.com writes: e had a student in one of our basic classes who capsized unexpectedly, panicked and felt he was trapped (even after a thorough and successful wet exit practice). He was rescued by an alert instructor by means of the HOG. It's a good skill to have. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott, I believe you just described the "scoop rescue". Very good for an unconscious victim or one with a disabled arm or shoulder. I also had to do a HOG at a CKF practice session. A woman was practicing an assisted re entry with another paddler and she had a new boat with a very tight skirt. It was so tight she couldn't remove it. After she was under for quite a while I went in and did a HOG to get her upright. Steve Holtzman Sent from my Wireless Crackberry er..... BlackBerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Holtzman wrote: "I believe you just described the "scoop rescue". " By golly I believe your right! The subtle differences in various rescue and rolling techniques can be confusing :-) "I also had to do a HOG at a CKF practice session. A woman was practicing an assisted re entry with another paddler and she had a new boat with a very tight skirt. It was so tight she couldn't remove it. After she was under for quite a while I went in and did a HOG to get her upright" In twenty years of teaching sea kayaking I have probably performed every conceivable variation of rescue countless times. But I don't really consider the instructional environment to be the same thing as doing it in "real" conditions. Just my opinion. That said, I'm all about the practice :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott Hilliard said > In twenty years of teaching sea kayaking I have probably performed every > conceivable variation of rescue countless times. But I don't really > consider the instructional environment to be the same thing as doing it > in "real" conditions. Just my opinion. That said, I'm all about the > practice :-) > Scott, I agree with you completely. Most of my real life rescues have been at practice sessions. When we're out in rough conditions, the paddlers who are out with us, are the ones who can handle the conditions. It's the noobies in the practice sessions that always scare me. At one session, we had a couple of guys show up after everybody was already on the water. I didn't get a chance to check their boat for floatation bags (it didn't have bulkheads) before they started practicing wet exits. The next thing I know, I looked their way and saw the boat in a Cleopatra's Needles position. I never had to perform a rescue on one in that position before, and it was a real education for me. It took two of us to get the boat emptied and floating again. By this time, there was no argument when I suggested they observe from the beach until they installed float bags. Steve Holtzman __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3733 (20090102) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'Day, Thanks for all those responses - much appreciated! I'll try to summarise them though that's no substitute for the original posts. There were 11 examples of rescues with at least two being due to entrapment: - 4 rescues were in white water - 4 during practise sessions - 1 at sea - 2 sounded as if they might have been during practise or on flat water. Pam described a paddler caught in a zipper and Steve a student trapped in a tight spray skirt. David Dalbey and Sid gave instances of paddlers who were unable to wet exit. It looked as if only one rescue was carried out at sea (one of three described by Rob). Anyway I'm now convinced the rescue is useful in real conditions not just for practise - thanks. There was concensus that the rescue was straightforward with provisos from David Carlson who mentioned a possible difficulty with boats facing bow to stern and both David and James Farrelly describing the difficulty slightly built rescuers could have with heavily built rescuees. James also mentioned the value of keeping the victim low on the deck. Scott questioned the value of some rescues in real conditions but thoroughtly endorsed their value for pratice and illustrated this with a description of the scoop rescue used to help larger paddlers during training sessions. Dave Kruger commented this would be a useful alternative to using a sling. Finally (though he was the first) Mark showed a couple of excellent before and after shots of a practise rescue in action. Mark I have to agree Duane does a fine job - the best looking, coldest looking, most relieved looking corpse imaginable! I guess being the victim in this rescue practise is the really hard part! I liked Scotts comment "You don't get any bonus points for technique when performing a kayak rescue - anything that works." In this spirit I've found that knowing a hands free pump is working on the rescuees boat leaves me free to just flp the boat up, help the rescuee in and hold the boat stable while pumping out, which I prefer to a T rescue in heavier seas and wind. Also (and sorry Scott), I'm yet another person who can report combining a reenter and eskimo rescue in real conditions (on a point in a busy waterway). It was only practical because I knew there was a working hands free pump on the rescuees boat, otherwise it would have been a mess! But both the flip and pump and the Eskimo rescues were fast when they needed to be. QUESTIONs Can an unconscious person drown? Is it likely to be easier to revive an unconscious person than a person who's lungs are full of water? Does anyone have experience of successful CPR on kayakers at sea? I'm serious about these, my paddling mates are getting older by the minute! All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO wrote: > Can an unconscious person drown? I believe that the major cause of death in sea kayaking is drowning after slipping into unconsciousness due to hypothermia. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Interesting point. They probably technically die of asphyxiation if they're not breathing in water. Perhaps by then, the point is moot and I'm so glad because it is fun to say "moot". Mark -----Original Message----- PeterO wrote: > Can an unconscious person drown? I believe that the major cause of death in sea kayaking is drowning after slipping into unconsciousness due to hypothermia. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Peter, I have been on 3 trips where a HOG or variant was used. 1) On the tip of Cape Flattery a guy went over and a paddler next to him saw his blade flailing underwater and decided to yank him up rather than risk him blowing his roll and popping the deck. 2) Class 2+ rapid on the Deschutes river in OR, *Surf City*, a gal went over and my wife paddled up leaned over and hauled her up. 3) A friend of mine capsized and though he has a pool roll, not much of a cold or cold and rough water roll. A friend leaned over and hauled him up. I know of too many times instructors have used it on students. As for *real* conditions 3 times is not alot, but it took all of what, 2 minutes to learn the skill? Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:50 PDT
