The last few times I have been out kayaking, I've noticed that I am experiencing the most muscle fatigue between the shoulder blades. This seems like an odd place to experience fatigue. If one is "arm paddling" the arms should feel it. If one is paddling using the lower back, its the back muscles that should feel it. When I go out I push myself physically. I'm out to cover the distance in an efficient manner. I worked on sprints today. Some muscle fatigue is to be expected. But why in this body location? Is this reflective of an error in technique? Derek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That's a new one on me. I have had some type of nerve-like pinching between the shoulder blades (upper cervical) but not muscle fatigue. Regardless, all muscle fatigue self-rectifies at some point. The bigger muscle groups of the back can and do suffer significant abuse from incorrect paddling technique or over-zealous use strain - usually from pulling too much water too fast when not warmed up, after a period of dormancy, or failure to engage lower body paddling mechanics. I'll often switch to a softer dihedral or narrower paddle for a time if I start to overdo it - usually in the spring if I've had a quiet winter. Sean Morely had a stroke clinic here in Victoria this weekend which I was thinking about as a spring primer but I've got a bad repetitive strain from too much overtime on the keyboard at work. Sean's one guy I would not mind getting some instruction from. Maybe other paddlers have some answers. Doug Lloyd > The last few times I have been out kayaking, I've noticed that I am > experiencing the most muscle fatigue between the shoulder blades. This > seems like an odd place to experience fatigue. If one is "arm paddling" > the arms should feel it. If one is paddling using the lower back, its the > back muscles that should feel it. > > When I go out I push myself physically. I'm out to cover the distance in > an efficient manner. I worked on sprints today. Some muscle fatigue is > to be expected. But why in this body location? Is this reflective of an > error in technique? > > Derek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is early in the season to be sure. And yes, fatigue does rectify itself with rest. This just isn't a muscle group that I would expect to feel this sort of fatigue. Even if I was overdoing it, I would have expected the fatigue to focus more on the lower back and possibly the arms. Perhaps it is time to see if I can take a paddle seminar of sorts - one that includes use of video taping and reviewing would be ideal. Thanks for the comments. Derek --- On Sun, 4/19/09, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Between the blades?! > To: "Derek" <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net > Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 10:02 AM > That's a new one on me. I have had > some type of nerve-like pinching between the shoulder blades > (upper cervical) but not muscle fatigue. Regardless, all > muscle fatigue self-rectifies at some point. The bigger > muscle groups of the back can and do suffer significant > abuse from incorrect paddling technique or over-zealous use > strain - usually from pulling too much water too fast when > not warmed up, after a period of dormancy, or failure to > engage lower body paddling mechanics. I'll often switch to a > softer dihedral or narrower paddle for a time if I start to > overdo it - usually in the spring if I've had a quiet > winter. > > Sean Morely had a stroke clinic here in Victoria this > weekend which I was thinking about as a spring primer but > I've got a bad repetitive strain from too much overtime on > the keyboard at work. Sean's one guy I would not mind > getting some instruction from. > > Maybe other paddlers have some answers. > > Doug Lloyd > > > > The last few times I have been out kayaking, I've > noticed that I am experiencing the most muscle fatigue > between the shoulder blades. This seems like an odd > place to experience fatigue. If one is "arm paddling" > the arms should feel it. If one is paddling using the > lower back, its the back muscles that should feel it. > > > > When I go out I push myself physically. I'm out > to cover the distance in an efficient manner. I worked > on sprints today. Some muscle fatigue is to be > expected. But why in this body location? Is this > reflective of an error in technique? > > > > Derek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is early in the season to be sure. And yes, fatigue does rectify itself with rest. This just isn't a muscle group that I would expect to feel this sort of fatigue. Even if I was overdoing it, I would have expected the fatigue to focus more on the lower back and possibly the arms. Perhaps it is time to see if I can take a paddle seminar of sorts - one that includes use of video taping and reviewing would be ideal. Thanks for the comments. Derek --- On Sun, 4/19/09, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Between the blades?! > To: "Derek" <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net > Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 10:02 AM > That's a new one on me. I have had > some type of nerve-like pinching between the shoulder blades > (upper cervical) but not muscle fatigue. Regardless, all > muscle fatigue self-rectifies at some point. The bigger > muscle groups of the back can and do suffer significant > abuse from incorrect paddling technique or over-zealous use > strain - usually from pulling too much water too fast when > not warmed up, after a period of dormancy, or failure to > engage lower body paddling mechanics. I'll often switch to a > softer dihedral or narrower paddle for a time if I start to > overdo it - usually in the spring if I've had a quiet > winter. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: I've noticed that I am experiencing the most muscle fatigue between the shoulder blades. This seems like an odd place to experience fatigue. I've spent decades analyzing forward strokes, especially my own, and have never identified this area of the body as one that gets much action in a normal forward stroke (understanding that normal is a pretty variable concept), but there IS some stuff going on there. Put your hand in the area between your shoulder blades and move the other arm around. Do you notice that the muscles and muscle attachments between your shoulder blades get some movement when you lift the arm up? The muscles involved in lifting the blade out of the water are some of the smaller ones in our upper body - the deltoids (which are usually very developed in kayakers who paddle a lot), and the trapezius (which goes from the back of your neck all the way down to the middle of your back and is used to lift the paddle and to stabilize the whole shoulder area). Look at http://www.innerbody.com/image/musbov.html# for some good views and descriptions of these muscle groups. I find, from my own experience, that the area of the back you are describing gets fatigued from carrying my boat. Especially after slalom races, where one often has to lug the kayak from the finish line back to the starting line, I found the middle of my back between my shoulder blades was quite tired. Never happened when I could paddle back up. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Do you have significant torso twist, and are reaching further forward for you paddle plant? then pulling back with the shoulder as you engage the blade transitioning to using torso muscles? Kirk On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:18:34 -0700 (PDT), "Derek" <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com> said: > The last few times I have been out kayaking, I've noticed that I am > experiencing the most muscle fatigue between the shoulder blades. This > seems like an odd place to experience fatigue. If one is "arm paddling" > the arms should feel it. If one is paddling using the lower back, its > the back muscles that should feel it. > > When I go out I push myself physically. I'm out to cover the distance in > an efficient manner. I worked on sprints today. Some muscle fatigue is > to be expected. But why in this body location? Is this reflective of an > error in technique? -- Kirk Olsen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Derek <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > The last few times I have been out kayaking, I've noticed that I am > experiencing the most muscle fatigue between the shoulder blades. This > seems like an odd place to experience fatigue. If one is "arm paddling" the > arms should feel it. If one is paddling using the lower back, its the back > muscles that should feel it. > > When I go out I push myself physically. I'm out to cover the distance in > an efficient manner. I worked on sprints today. Some muscle fatigue is to > be expected. But why in this body location? Is this reflective of an error > in technique? > > It just occurred to me that angina (which results when the heart muscle not getting quite anough blood to work properly) can display different symptoms in different tpeople. I am not a medical doctor (or, actually, any sort of doctor) but I can't see why that should stop me from pretending to be an expert given that I have, personally, experienced angina that was nothing like "normal". Generally angina is associated with a pain or tingling in the left arm but this is not always the case and one of the *other* symptoms is a pain or discomfort between the shoulder blades. In my case there was no pain at all but merely an extreme shortness of breath; nothing that a few stents couldn't put right. It was only *after* the first stent that an actual doctor mentioned that they could suddenly collapse. But nothing to worry about, really..... (cough). Or at least nothing *he* needed to worry about. Well fifteen years later the joke's on him!!1 But I digress... So, not to be alarmist or anything, one might consider a checkup when one is experiencing physical symptoms which seem odd for the effort expended. Even if we are on Paddlewise we are, after all, human. All except Doug Lloyd , of course. :) Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
No, but this guy is "inhuman": http://www.gawkk.com/raw-kayak-daredevil-world-record-waterfall-drop/discuss Possibly sore between the blades too - like his whole body between the paddle blades... DL > On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Derek <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > >> The last few times I have been out kayaking, I've noticed that I am >> experiencing the most muscle fatigue between the shoulder blades. This >> seems like an odd place to experience fatigue. If one is "arm paddling" >> the >> arms should feel it. If one is paddling using the lower back, its the >> back >> muscles that should feel it. >> >> When I go out I push myself physically. I'm out to cover the distance in >> an efficient manner. I worked on sprints today. Some muscle fatigue is >> to >> be expected. But why in this body location? Is this reflective of an >> error >> in technique? >> >> > It just occurred to me that angina (which results when the heart muscle > not > getting quite anough blood to work properly) can display different > symptoms > in different tpeople. I am not a medical doctor (or, actually, any sort of > doctor) but I can't see why that should stop me from pretending to be an > expert given that I have, personally, experienced angina that was nothing > like "normal". Generally angina is associated with a pain or tingling in > the left arm but this is not always the case and one of the *other* > symptoms > is a pain or discomfort between the shoulder blades. In my case there was > no > pain at all but merely an extreme shortness of breath; nothing that a few > stents couldn't put right. It was only *after* the first stent that an > actual doctor mentioned that they could suddenly collapse. But nothing to > worry about, really..... (cough). Or at least nothing *he* needed to worry > about. Well fifteen years later the joke's on him!!1 But I digress... > > So, not to be alarmist or anything, one might consider a checkup when one > is > experiencing physical symptoms which seem odd for the effort expended. > Even > if we are on Paddlewise we are, after all, human. All except Doug Lloyd , > of > course. :) > > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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