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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:16:00 -0800
Really, the theory of natural selection just makes so much sense.

A few days ago we were enjoying the benefits of global warming when I
noticed two figures walking on the ice on the other side of the lake from my
house. The weather has been in the 50s (F) during the day and down to
slightly below freezing at night. This has had an interesting effect on the
ice which was formed almost instantly in December when a brisk northerly
wind kept the water in continuous motion while the temperature plunged down
to 8-degrees (F). When the wind stopped the lake just froze; waves and all.
So, instead of ice that began with a thin skim on top and then grew thicker
over time we had 6-inches of ice overnight. Now, 6-inches of ice will
support a *lot* of weight and with the temps well below freezing both day
and night by New Year's you could have safely driven a pickup truck out onto
the lake. In fact, a few people did.

But we've now had almost two weeks of daytime temps in the 40s and 50s and
night time temps just slightly below freezing so when I saw these two
figures out on the ice I was immediately concerned for their safety. I
grabbed the binoculars and I could see that they were boys of about
middle-school age walking up and down a fracture zone of the lake ice and
occasionally stopping to jump up and down together. They could have hardly
chosen a worse time for this as the sun was quite warm and shining steadily
down onto the ice. I could see them occasionally breaking through a thin top
layer (probably formed overnight from meltwater trapped on top of the main
ice) and subsequent splashes of water. They would slip and fall down into
this and get wet from the water.

What really concerned me was seeing water jetting out from holes (they had
kicked in the ice with their boots) as they jumped up and down
simultaneously.

The problem was that they were about 75 feet out from the grassy island
across from me which was only accessible by boat or via a locked gate on an
access road that runs down alongside the freeway. The island is apparently
owned by a local radio station which has two vertical antennas and a
transmitter shed on the island and nothing else. The only way to reach these
boys was over the ice from my side of the lake. And if they went through the
ice I was not very happy about the safety of going out there to get them.

So while I was keeping an eye on them with my binoculars I started to wonder
what - if anything - I could do. I was a Boy Scout Scoutmaster for years and
I know that an old guy yelling at them from the shore would do no good at
all. They weren't in trouble yet so calling 911 would just complicate things
if there were others who *were* in trouble. If I were the only chance they
had to live through a dunking I wondered how I could manage to do this
safely.

About 5 years ago a dog that belonged to one of my clients had broken
through thin ice and a neighbor died trying to rescue it. The guy had tried
to move out onto the ice using a 4x8 sheet of 3/4-inch plywood as a
platform... moving it ahead of him with his torso on the plywood and his
feet propelling him. When the ice broke the plywood didn't support him and
he drowned. The dog drowned too.

And ten years ago I had rescued my daughter's husky from a point of land
that gave it no escape other than swimming across icy water. That time I sat
in her Loon 11-foot kayak and used ski poles to push me and the boat across
the ice to get the dog. That actually worked.

But the boys were lots farther than I had gone in the Loon and I remembered
just how exhausted I had been from that little adventure. Now that I was
better equipped for cold water immersion with a dry suit and full-length
fleece undergarment I thought that I could safely get close enough to the
boys to throw them one end of a line. If I called 911 before setting out
onto the ice then I could at least survive long enough for the rescue squad
to arrive if I broke through.

My plan was to use cross-country skis to spread the load across the ice,
sprint out close enough to get a line (with a loop in the end) to anyone
fallen through, and then tow them back to shore. In my drysuit with PFD,
wool socks, head protection and gloves I would be ok for 30 to 40 minutes in
the ice water. So I gathered the gear in the living room, got into my fleece
undies, and watched the boys through the binoculars.

Well.... wouldn't you know it but the kids jumped all around over there and
then, tired and wet, they crossed back over the lake ice to my side and
disappeared up the shoreline. I never did get to try out my plan. Apparently
the main ice is still thick enough to support two kids working hard to break
through it. I hope they don't try it every week. My wife had my camera in
her car at work so I couldn't take pictures either.

I'm guessing Darwin will catch up to them.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: Darryl Johnson <darryl_johnson_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:04:21 -0500
On 26/01/2010 2:16 PM, Craig Jungers wrote:
> Really, the theory of natural selection just makes so much sense.
>

<snip>

>
> Well.... wouldn't you know it but the kids jumped all around over there and
> then, tired and wet, they crossed back over the lake ice to my side and
> disappeared up the shoreline. I never did get to try out my plan. Apparently
> the main ice is still thick enough to support two kids working hard to break
> through it. I hope they don't try it every week. My wife had my camera in
> her car at work so I couldn't take pictures either.
>
> I'm guessing Darwin will catch up to them.
>
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
> www.nwkayaking.net

I suspect that we've all -- I know I have -- managed to escape serious 
injury or even death at one time or another and been barely aware of 
the fact that I was in any danger. There are probably times when I 
escaped to live another day and never even knew how much danger I was 
in. Or that I was in any peril at all.

Sometimes it's just a brief moment of inattention. Sometimes it's a 
complete lack of knowledge.

I once read that the area of the brain that deals with planning ahead 
and thinking of consequences was under-developed in humans until about 
the age of 19 or 20. If that's true, it is remarkable that so many 
kids survive at all.

Of course, some adult humans have a badly under-developed sense of 
consequences too. Like the fellow who walked out in front of a Toronto 
streetcar while listening to his mp3 player. Never looked; never 
hesitated. The streetcar left the scene in good working order; the 
pedestrian didn't. But you could have guessed that.

-- 
   Darryl
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From: James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:52:48 -0500
On Jan 26, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Darryl Johnson wrote:

> I once read that the area of the brain that deals with planning ahead and thinking of consequences was under-developed in humans until about the age of 19 or 20. If that's true, it is remarkable that so many kids survive at all.
> 


Last summer my 16 yr old was driving me to the lake. We were traveling on a rural road. Three state troopers raced up to pass us with their lights on.  My son dutifully tried to pull over onto the unpaved shoulder while maintaining 55 mph. I mean he never even took his foot off the gas. The shoulder was very muddy and  sloped  downward. He received immediate feedback from me on that decision. Much immediate feedback.  

Jim et al
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From: Niels Blaauw <niels_at_nibla.nl>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:13:53 +0100
Craig Jungers wrote:
> I'm guessing Darwin will catch up to them.
>   
You'd better beware, Craig, or Darwin might catch up with _you_!

The theory of the Selfish Gene states clearly that you shouldn't risk 
your life for just any lunatic getting himself in trouble. You should 
weigh the risk against the genes you share with the lunatic. You should 
go out of your way to save your children, brothers and sisters, and 
parents - and only if they are fertile, and if you're reasonably sure 
they really have the genes they claim they have.
Assuming you have some idea of who your children are (not all men 
have...) and that these two were not yours, your genes should have known 
better than to plan a risky rescue.

On the other hand: Your rescue would have been highly ethical. Bad genes 
can result in nice people. Should we congratulate you on your high moral 
standard, or condole you on your faulty genes? I chose the former. Genes 
are nasty fascist things anyway.

More to the point: How can boys be _that_ bloody stupid!?
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:50:45 -0800
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Niels Blaauw <niels_at_nibla.nl> wrote:

>
> You'd better beware, Craig, or Darwin might catch up with _you_!
>

It's too late. Natural selection is done with us once we are no longer
"breeding". I have been done with that ever since my wife had me and the cat
fixed on the same trip to town. And I have a catnip toy around here
somewhere to prove it. :P

>
> On the other hand: Your rescue would have been highly ethical. Bad genes
> can result in nice people. Should we congratulate you on your high moral
> standard, or condole you on your faulty genes? I chose the former. Genes are
> nasty fascist things anyway.
>

I would not like to face the mother of these kids knowing that I actually
could have done something with little risk to myself in the process. As it
turned out, they didn't need help this time. Next time I hope to be
paddling.

>
> More to the point: How can boys be _that_ bloody stupid!?
>
> Seems to be part of being a 5th grader and the onset of the testosterone
fog. Girls get the same thing but in a different form (called "fashion").
The schools cannot get them to wear coats to school even after their school
bus breaks down in the middle of nowhere in winter. Coats are simply not in
fashion... skimpy little tops are.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lakek WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:52:40 -0800
I think back to my earlier days. Chances I took. Hmmm. The problem wasn't
that I was an idiot. The problem was I didn't know I was an idiot.

Doug Lloyd


On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Niels Blaauw <niels_at_nibla.nl> wrote:

>
> You'd better beware, Craig, or Darwin might catch up with _you_!
>

It's too late. Natural selection is done with us once we are no longer
"breeding". I have been done with that ever since my wife had me and the cat
fixed on the same trip to town. And I have a catnip toy around here
somewhere to prove it. :P

>
> On the other hand: Your rescue would have been highly ethical. Bad genes
> can result in nice people. Should we congratulate you on your high moral
> standard, or condole you on your faulty genes? I chose the former. Genes
are
> nasty fascist things anyway.
>

I would not like to face the mother of these kids knowing that I actually
could have done something with little risk to myself in the process. As it
turned out, they didn't need help this time. Next time I hope to be
paddling.

>
> More to the point: How can boys be _that_ bloody stupid!?
>
> Seems to be part of being a 5th grader and the onset of the testosterone
fog. Girls get the same thing but in a different form (called "fashion").
The schools cannot get them to wear coats to school even after their school
bus breaks down in the middle of nowhere in winter. Coats are simply not in
fashion... skimpy little tops are.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lakek WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 03:44:05 -0800
Hello Doug,

You wrote:

> I think back to my earlier days. Chances I took. Hmmm. The problem
> wasn't that I was an idiot. The problem was I didn't know I was an
> idiot.

And therein lies the sublime beauty of our idiocy! Just think of all
the extraordinary moments you would have never experienced had you
been smart enough to know just how stupid you were? :)

I can certainly think of a few of my own!

-- 
Melissa
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From: Jim <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:29:11 -0600
Melissa said:  And therein lies the sublime beauty of our idiocy! Just
think of all the extraordinary moments you would have never experienced
had you been smart enough to know just how stupid you were? :)



I agree 100%!   I've always believed the saying "No brain - no pain!"




Jim Tibensky
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From: Niels Blaauw <niels_at_nibla.nl>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:14:21 +0100
Melissa Reese wrote:
> Just think of all
> the extraordinary moments you would have never experienced had you
> been smart enough to know just how stupid you were? :)
>
> I can certainly think of a few of my own!
>   
Now that I think of it... Yes! I won't share them (some are illegal), 
but I'm smiling to myself, reliving various great memories.

Which reminds me of some great quotes; I think both are from Douglas Adams.

- Most things you learn just after you need them.
- A "learning experience" is where your unconscious says: "That thing 
you just did? Don't do that."

I also remember a life jacket, invented by McManus, that doesn't float. 
It only has built-in speakers, shouting at appropriate moments "DON'T DO 
IT, YOU FOOL!"
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:42:41 -0800
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Niels Blaauw <niels_at_nibla.nl> wrote:

>
> I also remember a life jacket, invented by McManus, that doesn't float. It
> only has built-in speakers, shouting at appropriate moments "DON'T DO IT,
> YOU FOOL!"


I like that! I have a tee shirt with the words "try not to be stupid" but
it's hard for me to read it. Something that broadcasts the message now and
then is much better.

However old age and physical infirmities have done wonders in terms of
calibrating my stupid-meter. (stupidometer?). My wife is no good, however;
she thinks everything I do is stupid.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: Darryl Johnson <darryl_johnson_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:14:42 -0500
On 27/01/2010 10:42 PM, Craig Jungers wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Niels Blaauw<niels_at_nibla.nl>  wrote:
>
>>
>> I also remember a life jacket, invented by McManus, that doesn't float. It
>> only has built-in speakers, shouting at appropriate moments "DON'T DO IT,
>> YOU FOOL!"
>
>
> I like that! I have a tee shirt with the words "try not to be stupid" but
> it's hard for me to read it. Something that broadcasts the message now and
> then is much better.
>
> However old age and physical infirmities have done wonders in terms of
> calibrating my stupid-meter. (stupidometer?). My wife is no good, however;
> she thinks everything I do is stupid.
>
> Craig Jungers
> Moses Lake, WA
> www.nwkayaking.net

Sometimes, I think my wife actually encourages me to do stupid things. 
She certainly encourages me to go off for a week at a time on Georgian 
Bay (hoping, perhaps, that a bear will get me if I don't manage to 
drown myself).

She does mutter, from time to time, about all the money wasted -- so 
far -- on my life insurance policy. I suspect she has plans to spend 
the benefits, although I have no idea on what.

In any case, my accidental death would be cheaper than either a 
divorce or an affair, and would bring money in: hence a double benefit!

I have yet to catch her going to the extent of drilling small holes in 
my hatch covers or my drysuit, or removing flotation from the PFD. I'm 
not saying she isn't doing, or at least thinking about, these things: 
I've just not caught her at it.

(In truth, my wife is very supportive and makes no bones about the 
fact that she has zero interest in kayaking, but encourages me at 
anything I turn my increasing feeble mind to. Including solo trips off 
into the wilderness, or cross-country drives.)

-- 
   Darryl
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:30:56 -0800
   I recall vividly skiing across a snow-covered lake in Yellowstone 
National
   Park in mid-winter, fully convinced the lake was frozen solid. It wasn't.
   I'm around today only because Darwin wasn't ready to give me my award 
yet.

   Brad

>I think back to my earlier days. Chances I took. Hmmm. The problem wasn't
> that I was an idiot. The problem was I didn't know I was an idiot.
>
> Doug Lloyd
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Niels Blaauw <niels_at_nibla.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>> You'd better beware, Craig, or Darwin might catch up with _you_!
>>
>   Craig said:

> It's too late. Natural selection is done with us once we are no longer
> "breeding". I have been done with that ever since my wife had me and the 
> cat
> fixed on the same trip to town. And I have a catnip toy around here
> somewhere to prove it. :P
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From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:27:13 -0800
    My version of Robert Frost:  On the path of life, I have taken the road 
less
traveled, and that has proven to be a huge mistake. (The well-traveled road
is well-traveled for a reason.)

BRC


> On 27/01/2010 10:42 PM, Craig Jungers wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Niels Blaauw<niels_at_nibla.nl>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I also remember a life jacket, invented by McManus, that doesn't float. 
>>> It
>>> only has built-in speakers, shouting at appropriate moments "DON'T DO 
>>> IT,
>>> YOU FOOL!"
>>
>>
>> I like that! I have a tee shirt with the words "try not to be stupid" but
>> it's hard for me to read it. Something that broadcasts the message now 
>> and
>> then is much better.
>>
>> However old age and physical infirmities have done wonders in terms of
>> calibrating my stupid-meter. (stupidometer?). My wife is no good, 
>> however;
>> she thinks everything I do is stupid.
>>
>> Craig Jungers
>> Moses Lake, WA
>> www.nwkayaking.net
>
> Sometimes, I think my wife actually encourages me to do stupid things. She 
> certainly encourages me to go off for a week at a time on Georgian Bay 
> (hoping, perhaps, that a bear will get me if I don't manage to drown 
> myself).
>
> She does mutter, from time to time, about all the money wasted -- so 
> far -- on my life insurance policy. I suspect she has plans to spend the 
> benefits, although I have no idea on what.
> -- 
>   Darryl Johnson
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:41:31 -0800
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu> wrote:

>   My version of Robert Frost:  On the path of life, I have taken the road
> less
> traveled, and that has proven to be a huge mistake. (The well-traveled road
> is well-traveled for a reason.)
>
> I have had many experiences with mathematicians and I cannot imagine any of
them taking other than the road least traveled. As often as not they're on a
road never traveled. Or even imagined.

Not that this is a bad thing, mind you; just an observation. :)


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:34:18 -0800
Niels Blaauw wrote regarding Craig's rescue plan of two boys that were likely
to break through the ice in Moses Lake:


>>>>>>>>You'd better beware, Craig, or Darwin might catch up with _you_!
The theory of the Selfish Gene states clearly that you shouldn't risk
your life for just any lunatic getting himself in trouble. You should
weigh the risk against the genes you share with the lunatic. You should
go out of your way to save your children, brothers and sisters, and
parents - and only if they are fertile, and if you're reasonably sure
they really have the genes they claim they have.
Assuming you have some idea of who your children are (not all men
have...) and that these two were not yours, your genes should have known
better than to plan a risky rescue.
On the other hand: Your rescue would have been highly ethical. Bad genes
can result in nice people. Should we congratulate you on your high moral
standard, or condole you on your faulty genes? I chose the former. Genes
are nasty fascist things anyway.

More to the point: How can boys be _that_ bloody stupid!?<<<<<<<<<<<



The theory of the selfish gene has no "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts" involved.
Craig isn't going to reproduce any more. The boys might might well reproduce.
A chimpanzee shares roughly 99 percent of our genes. The boys share far more
than that with Craig and also have yet to reach their reproductive ages while
Craig's breeding days are over. A gene that promotes kinship protection to aid
its own survival would lead the person with that gene to sacrifice their own
life to save the lives of more than two brothers (or sisters), more than eight
cousins, etc. etc., because that would increase that selfish gene's chances
for survival. Since the risk to Craig's survival in the rescue he planned
would be far less than 100%, the selfish gene theory could still easily fit.
Imagine if Craig and the two boys were the last males on earth and, as he
does, Craig knew about the condition he shared with his wife's cat. He might
well have attempted to save those children even knowing he would die doing so.



The theory of the selfish gene is not going to require one to do the math
calculations necessary to get the relationships exactly right (but on average
it is likely to work out that way). Someone living in the vicinity of you
(certainly in tribal times) is likely to share more of your genes than someone
living further away, so the theory would predict that you would be more likely
to take risks to help someone nearby (maybe someone that you've seen before)
than a stranger or someone from a great distance away.



If boys weren't that bloody stupid (risk taking) that might also make their
taking of risks in the future to save even a close relative much less likely.
If boys weren't both genetically (and educationally) programmed to take risks
we would have a lot better chance of putting and end to war though. Stock
markets would be less interesting too.


The theory of reciprocal altruism should also be considered a possible
motivation in this case rather than accusing Craig of having bad (or math
deficient) genes (or high moral standards).
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From: Jim <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:46:12 -0600
Rather than selfish genes, reciprocally altruisitc genes or even Calvin
Klein genes, maybe the Golden Rule counts for something as well.


Jim Tibensky
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:11:48 -0800
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 2:34 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE
<marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>wrote:

>
> If boys weren't that bloody stupid (risk taking) that might also make their
> taking of risks in the future to save even a close relative much less
> likely.
> If boys weren't both genetically (and educationally) programmed to take
> risks
> we would have a lot better chance of putting and end to war though. Stock
> markets would be less interesting too.
>
> I have to admit that I did not think through the situation as deeply as
Matt has. His remarks about tribal influences are interesting. I've long
thought that one of the strong points of American (or any "new world")
culture is that we broke so many tribal ties when our ancestors moved away
from their old ties and then, again, out of the cultural ghettos they had
naturally gravitated towards when they arrived (in the Americas or the
antipodes or wherever). It was hard to keep old hatreds going without
constant reinforcement. My mother told me stories of scandalizing her
parents by being friends with a girl whose parents were Italian. It was
apparently quite daring then but seemed silly at a time in my life when
Annette Funicello was my idea of teen beauty.

My daughter's adoption of a half-black baby with a gorgeous tan and long
eyelashes and curly brown hair has also made me re-think tribalism on the
family level (which is probably the basis of tribalism anyway). I suspect
that the idea of "survival of the fittest" has as much to do with cultural
evolution as it does with physical evolution (at least in hominids).

This forum is an exciting one for illustrating the various approaches
towards taking risks. We are probably all more willing to take some risks
than most of the population (wherever we live) but even within our subset
there is considerable variation (witness the PFD debate).

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:05:21 -0800
If there weren't tribes we would have to create them. Teen gangs and kayak
clubs come to mind. I'm sure if you look around you will notice them
everywhere. You don't think corporations would exploit this need, do you?



Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:11:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
From: crjungers_at_gmail.com
To: marinerkayaks_at_msn.com
CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 2:34 AM, MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
wrote:



If boys weren't that bloody stupid (risk taking) that might also make their
taking of risks in the future to save even a close relative much less likely.
If boys weren't both genetically (and educationally) programmed to take risks
we would have a lot better chance of putting and end to war though. Stock
markets would be less interesting too.


I have to admit that I did not think through the situation as deeply as Matt
has. His remarks about tribal influences are interesting. I've long thought
that one of the strong points of American (or any "new world") culture is that
we broke so many tribal ties when our ancestors moved away from their old ties
and then, again, out of the cultural ghettos they had naturally gravitated
towards when they arrived (in the Americas or the antipodes or wherever). It
was hard to keep old hatreds going without constant reinforcement. My mother
told me stories of scandalizing her parents by being friends with a girl whose
parents were Italian. It was apparently quite daring then but seemed silly at
a time in my life when Annette Funicello was my idea of teen beauty.

My daughter's adoption of a half-black baby with a gorgeous tan and long
eyelashes and curly brown hair has also made me re-think tribalism on the
family level (which is probably the basis of tribalism anyway). I suspect that
the idea of "survival of the fittest" has as much to do with cultural
evolution as it does with physical evolution (at least in hominids).

This forum is an exciting one for illustrating the various approaches towards
taking risks. We are probably all more willing to take some risks than most of
the population (wherever we live) but even within our subset there is
considerable variation (witness the PFD debate).

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Natural Selection at Work
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:15:49 -0800
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 2:05 PM, MATT MARINER BROZE
<marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>wrote:

>  If there weren't tribes we would have to create them. Teen gangs and kayak
> clubs come to mind. I'm sure if you look around you will notice them
> everywhere. You don't think corporations would exploit this need, do you?
>

Oh I agree totally. But when tribal ties are broken it becomes more
difficult to continue with whatever old tribal issues existed before the
break. We are making new ones, however, and they are just as likely to
eventually resolve into the blind enmity or friendship that the old ones
had. Fandom, clubs, gangs, cities. I often wonder why people become
obsessive fans of a team that may have no players from their city or
(sometimes, like hockey) from their country. Homo sapiens seems to be a herd
animal. :P


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: David Miskell <misktome_at_gmavt.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] paddlers in naples. fla. area
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:46:44 -0500
i am going to visit family in naples, fla feb 4 -10 and am looking to meet
up with any local paddlewisers to paddle with or give suggestions for area
kayaking trips. i expect to rent a kayak from saltwater sports in naples.
thanks, david miskell
802-318-0576) 
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