PressHerald accident report on two women: www.pressherald.com Report is on today's front page. There is place for comment at end of story Comments from paddlewise might be appropriate Author's e-mail is also there, another place for useful comment Thanks, Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck, Thanks for the link. I tried to create an account there but it failed for some reason (they didn't say what it was). I also couldn't locate the author's email. Maybe it's just too early in the morning here. It would be nice if someone could let the author know that paddling groups all over the country are trying to come to grips with this problem and devise a solution but it isn't easy. We need a new idea to get the idea out to casual kayakers about the dangers of cold water and the difficulty involved in getting back into your kayak if you find yourself in the water. Clearly, what we are doing now isn't working as well as we'd like. One of these girls was apparently at least somewhat experienced. They paddled about one mile to a small island but by the time they returned the wind had kicked up to 22mph and there were small craft advisories. They don't mention how experienced the second girl was but she was a guest at the island and when they invited her they mentioned where they'd go in kayaks. To their credit they were both wearing PFDs. But otherwise they were appropriately dressed for a day on the beach; not for a night in 48F water. It's likely that neither had any training or experience with even the most rudimentary self-rescue techniques. They were in "12-foot" kayaks. One of the kayaks was found capsized but the other was floating properly with gear (at least a coat) inside. We've all seen people like them. Paddling happily along peacefully on calm water dressed in a tee-shirt and shorts... or jeans and hiking boots. Some wear a PFD, usually it's nothing but an orange "life jacket" behind the seat. If we say anything they think we're crazy. I've watched entire groups like this paddling in the San Juan Islands headed for Sucia or Stuart across water that could turn from calm to boiling with the change of tide. How do we get the word out to at least wear a water ski light wetsuit and not a bikini? To carry a VHF? These girls were lost less than a mile from home on a spring weekend in an area crowded with other boaters (including at least one kayak school group). A VHF would have likely changed the outcome of this story. Reading Matt and George's book, "Deep Trouble", is excellent preparation for kayakers but I think casual users of kayaks don't think of themselves as "kayakers" and would probably think that those sorts of books are for "real" kayakers. And how likely is it that someone will spend the money for a drysuit, paddle float or VHF radio to paddle a $399 12-foot kayak? There is always an element of risk when you go out onto any body of water in anything and kayaks certainly add to that risk. All we can do is try to reduce that risk to a point where it's acceptable. How do we get the word out without getting the activity over-regulated? Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:56 AM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote: > PressHerald accident report on two women: www.pressherald.com > > > > Report is on todays front page. > > There is place for comment at end of story > > Comments from paddlewise might be appropriate > > Authors e-mail is also there, another place for useful comment > > > > Thanks, > > Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for your thoughts here Craig. The problem doesn't just relate to kayak activity of course, but to small boating in general, including kayaks, canoes, paddleboards, and other floaty things. The omission of PFD's are the usual exclusions cited in these reports. Next comes experience (or lack thereof) followed by inproper immersion apparal. It is assumed in many of these cases, that a weather related factor played into the incident, as well as some lack of sound judgement. And, it is spring and we always get a few incidents this time of year. Here in BC there are adds on buses and billboards about the dangers of cold water -- usually a person is shown slightly submerged under the water, dead. Effective, especially for today's image-bound generation. I don't know what the answer is. I do know Jackie was asking what happened to her beloved Paddlwise here a few days ago on a different thread. Apparently, at least, we still discuss safety on Paddlewise thank goodness. I do know the discussion must go on. Doug Lloyd > Chuck, > > Thanks for the link. I tried to create an account there but it > failed for > some reason (they didn't say what it was). I also couldn't > locate the > author's email. Maybe it's just too early in the morning here. > > It would be nice if someone could let the author know that > paddling groups > all over the country are trying to come to grips with this > problem and > devise a solution but it isn't easy. > > We need a new idea to get the idea out to casual kayakers about > the dangers > of cold water and the difficulty involved in getting back into > your kayak if > you find yourself in the water. Clearly, what we are doing now > isn't working > as well as we'd like. > > One of these girls was apparently at least somewhat experienced. They > paddled about one mile to a small island but by the time they > returned the > wind had kicked up to 22mph and there were small craft > advisories. They > don't mention how experienced the second girl was but she was a > guest at the > island and when they invited her they mentioned where they'd go > in kayaks. > > To their credit they were both wearing PFDs. But otherwise they were > appropriately dressed for a day on the beach; not for a night in > 48F water. > It's likely that neither had any training or experience with > even the most > rudimentary self-rescue techniques. They were in "12-foot" > kayaks. One of > the kayaks was found capsized but the other was floating > properly with gear > (at least a coat) inside. > > We've all seen people like them. Paddling happily along > peacefully on calm > water dressed in a tee-shirt and shorts... or jeans and hiking > boots. Some > wear a PFD, usually it's nothing but an orange "life jacket" > behind the > seat. If we say anything they think we're crazy. I've watched > entire groups > like this paddling in the San Juan Islands headed for Sucia or > Stuart across > water that could turn from calm to boiling with the change of tide. > > How do we get the word out to at least wear a water ski light > wetsuit and > not a bikini? To carry a VHF? These girls were lost less than a > mile from > home on a spring weekend in an area crowded with other boaters > (including at > least one kayak school group). A VHF would have likely changed > the outcome > of this story. > > Reading Matt and George's book, "Deep Trouble", is excellent > preparation for > kayakers but I think casual users of kayaks don't think of > themselves as > "kayakers" and would probably think that those sorts of books > are for "real" > kayakers. > > And how likely is it that someone will spend the money for a > drysuit, paddle > float or VHF radio to paddle a $399 12-foot kayak? > > There is always an element of risk when you go out onto any body > of water in > anything and kayaks certainly add to that risk. All we can do is > try to > reduce that risk to a point where it's acceptable. > > How do we get the word out without getting the activity over- > regulated? > > Craig Jungers > Moses Lake, WA > www.nwkayaking.net > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:56 AM, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote: > > > PressHerald accident report on two women: www.pressherald.com > > > > > > > > Report is on todays front page. > > > > There is place for comment at end of story > > > > Comments from paddlewise might be appropriate > > > > Authors e-mail is also there, another place for useful comment > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:46:31AM -0700, Doug Lloyd wrote: > The omission of PFD's are the usual exclusions cited in these > reports. Next comes experience (or lack thereof) followed by inproper > immersion apparal. I was sitting across table from Charlie Walbridge on Tuesday (whose name I trust is familiar to everyone in this context) and he was discussing the rough statistical breakdown of paddler fatalities. The bulk of those are associated with novice/recreational paddlers who, as you pointed out, lack experience and gear, notably PFDs and cold water clothing, and often paddle in adverse water/weather conditions *because* they're novices and don't recognize them as such. He said that based on his analysis of those accident reports, half of those fatalities would have been avoided if the paddlers had been wearing PFDs. Half isn't "all" of course, but it's a good start. This is why I've adamantly argued for years that we should all be wearing PFDs every time we paddle *no matter what the circumstances*, because (in addition to the obvious reasons) we're thereby providing a highly visible and very consistent example to others. And people do learn from observation. I have lost count of the number of times I've done ad hoc rescues of PFD-less canoeists/kayakers/etc. on the rivers I frequent and then pointed out to them that I'm wearing my PFD. I sometimes mention that I would appreciate it if they'd wear theirs because if our roles are reversed, they're not going to be able to help me, and that hardly seems fair. In just about all cases, that's enough to get them to pick up the oufitter-issued PFD that I know is lying in their boat and put it on. Maybe next time they'll put it on at the put-in. One down, a million to go. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich, Great post! By the way, the name Charlie Walbridge rang a bell. I checked, and I assume this is the same Charles Walbridge who edited one of my prize possessions, "Boat Builders Manual, Building Fiberglass Canoes and Kayaks for Whitewater, Fifth Edition, Revised 1982." Duane www.rollordrown.com --- On Sat, 5/22/10, Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_rockandwater.net> wrote: > I was sitting across table from Charlie Walbridge on > Tuesday (whose name > I trust is familiar to everyone in this context) and he was > discussing > the rough statistical breakdown of paddler > fatalities. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> How do we get the word out without getting the activity over-regulated? The retailers in this sport have a vested interest in pushing equipment. It would seem that the general paddling community has taken their sales pitch to heart and attempted to make it gospel. The girls in the Portland incident no doubt considered themselves as having taken sufficient safety measures because they were wearing their pfd's - and if you listen to what the general paddling community preaches then it is an easy assumption to make that if one is wearing their pfd then nothing bad can happen. Or maybe it was just that the pfd was not enough, as several others on Paddlewise have attempted to infer. If they had only been wearing wetsuits, or drysuits, or paddling a different boat. Vhf radio? Pump? Paddlefloat? Flares? So they spend a ton of money and carry all of this crap and die anyway - what then? S*#t happens! What we need to do, in what has always been my humble opinion, is take the focus away from the equipment and put back where it belongs - on the skills. We need to paint this sport as inherently dangerous and try to get the message out that it is not about the equipment, but about on the water skills which include not just boat handling, but applied knowledge, judgment and good sense. It should be stated that these skills can then be backed up with the appropriate equipment, but it should at the same time be emphasized that the equipment alone will probably not save you. The way I see it is that we have three choices; accept the deaths, regulate, or educate. Pushing more equipment is not the answer. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Scott Hilliard <kiayker_at_sbcglobal.net>wrote: > How do we get the word out without getting the activity over-regulated? >> > > > What we need to do, in what has always been my humble opinion, is take the > focus away from the equipment and put back where it belongs - on the skills. > This does not solve the problem. They aren't buying equipment (just a $39 water ski wetsuit would have helped) AND they aren't taking lessons. Do they think kayaking is dangerous? Sure. Ask them? They'll tell you it is. Strosaker paddling to Catalina is clearly dangerous. But did they think a 1 mile paddle to Ram Island was dangerous. Obviously not. Perception is the problem. Expecting a college girl spending a week visiting a friend with a kayak to go learn skills sounds great but is, in my opinion, entirely unrealistic. Anyway, I think your focus on skills falls short. At the very least it should be a focus on both. A focus on skills might be fine in So. Cal. with 60F water or on the Gulf Coast or when you paddle in groups. But in Puget Sound - and in other areas with cold water year around - you need more than skills. Two expert paddlers at Plum Island who spent two hours in the water unable to get back into their kayaks might attest to that. In the end it was their equipment that saved their butts.. not skills. And that story is not - by a long shot - the only example. But besides all that, the suggestion to focus on skills faces exactly the same issue as a focus on equipment. Namely, how do we convince a person who just bought a $399 kayak at Wal-Mart to go take a $150 introduction to paddling course? He thinks he's only going to paddle it on the local lake until they spend a weekend at the beach next summer and someone decides to paddle to Ram Island. We KNOW they aren't going to buy a drysuit for $600. We are pretty sure they aren't going to buy a farmer john (or jane) for $120. And those only cost money. How can we expect them to pony up both money AND time for lessons? Will they buy a $60 paddlefloat and learn to use it? Probably not and my guess is that it's the "learn to use it" part of the equation that they balk at. So it has to be cheap, it has to be almost brainless to do, and it has to be easy to carry. Only a VHF handheld combined with a water skier type shorty wetsuit and a PFD meets those requirements. But that's hardly a new idea and, anyway, that's not working either. There must be a new idea somewhere. Perhaps if our economy weren't in the dumps the various manufacturers and retailers could use their various PR organizations to get the word out better. Especially to parents. Ads on buses. TV spots. Ads in boater magazines. I dunno. If I knew how to fix it then it'd be fixed by now. But I'll bet someone has an idea. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, Wa www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The retailers and 'jobbers' who rent 12 foot flat water boats and/or tacitly encourage use in coastal waters should be held partially accountable. Taking a 12 foot flat hulled, poorly tracking boat into 48 degree water with 22mph winds, dressed in cotton clothing with no plan for immersion response may speak to naive paddlers, poor decision making, or lack of ability to read conditions and translate these into highly probable, worse-case scenarios. I seen 'jobbers' on Peaks Island rent short, flat water pungo boats and cheap sit-on-tops to anyone willing to cough up the bucks and sign a general release... right in the vicinity of the pass between Peaks and Cushing. And I've paddle out to a couple of utterly incompetent paddlers on a rented-by-the-hour SOT who were drifting into the shipping channel, unable to correct s the afternoon breeze kicked up. A tow line got them back closer to more protected lee and shallower water. Ram ledge is not an adventurous trip from Peaks. It;s often where you can catch some nice, learning-level surf when the swell is in from the SW. And Cushing offers some great beginner-level gunk holing and rock garden play. Had these paddlers been connected in any way to Tom B. & Maine Island Kayak Co.(who do NOT rent kayaks to people), they'd be alive today. Will *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's worth a try but, even with graphic video and all kinds of education, they haven't been able to stop drivers from texting while driving (or drinking while driving, for that matter). However, traffic fatalaties have been down in CA in the last few years (though part of that has been attributed to unemployment). The publicity of this tragic event may save some lives, though. btw, the primary original purpose for PaddleWise was for doing exactly what you and others are doing now... provide a forum where experienced paddlers can pass on sometimes hard-learned lessons, educating other paddlers on safety. Maybe it would be worth handing out info (or placing a bumper sticker on your vehicle) with the URL for such like-minded blogs, forums, etc. A URL to get informed.... Be PaddleWise. Just a thought. Jackie Craig Jungers wrote: >Chuck, > >Thanks for the link. I tried to create an account there but it failed for >some reason (they didn't say what it was). I also couldn't locate the >author's email. Maybe it's just too early in the morning here. > >It would be nice if someone could let the author know that paddling groups >all over the country are trying to come to grips with this problem and >devise a solution but it isn't easy. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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