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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 14:19:16 -0700
Steve and some others have been back channel about things... and I had
already replied to him when I decided that it really has enough for the
group. So here it is. :)

On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:03 AM, <Nole4ever_at_aol.com> wrote:

> yes, it is down.... a clean kill..... right between the "K and the A" of
> Kawasaki.
>

LOL... tourist areas almost always have a "local" bar scene that features
comedians and musicians who sing, talk and joke about tourists and
developers. I never lived in Honolulu but I was in port so often that many
people in town thought I lived there. Including the denizens of one of
"those" kind of clubs; upstairs, smoky, dark. Hicks would have fit right in.

I'm a jet ski operator... and, if I say so myself, a damn good one. We have
two of them. One of them is a 3-person job with forward and reverse, several
compartments for storage, and handles almost as well as my 25-foot Carver
sport fishing boat. But my favorite jet ski, "my* jet ski, is a convertible.
It converts from a jet ski with a motocross-type seat to a jet ski with no
seat (stand up) to a jet-ski with a seat mounted right down on the deck. It
will carry 2 people if one of them is under 3 years old. SeaDoo, when it
heard that I had one and liked it, immediately discontinued the line.

My wife's jet ski is basically a useless piece of crap. It serves as basic
water-borne transportation slightly better than my stand-up but it's not
really much fun to operate unless your idea of fun barely breaks out of
negative numbers on my list of fun.

A good way to see how the world looks at almost anything is to check the art
world. There are tons of very arty pictures of horses, horses and wagons,
and horses and barges. There are wonderful paintings of sailboats and
whales, sailboats at anchor, sailboats awaiting launch at the yacht club. I
have some swell watercolors of kayaks (thanks mostly to Pam) and even some
antique photos of Inuits towing home whales. I even have an exquisite
side-lit photo of just the frame of a kayak resting like the skelaton of
some sea critter on a beach.

I defy you to find anything remotely resembling art featuring jet skis.
About the best you'll get are "action shots" featuring spray, barely clad
bodies, and spray. (Did I mention spray?)

I have so many questions for jet ski operators. Such as: Why do they go in
circles? Do they reverse the circles to unwind? Why did they buy a jet-ski
with a huge seat and then crouch over it in some crippled attempt to mimic a
stand-up jet ski? And the most important question of all: Why do they have
to go in circles just off my dock when their own goddam dock is only 200
yards up the lake?

I am, in general, not happy with jet skis except when I'm driving one.
(Which is also, come to think of it, pretty much the way I look at flying.)
Well, when I'm driving mine. But as far as I'm concerned the stories of
kayakers capsized by the wakes of jet skis have either been written by
people who have never seen those itty-bitty wakes or by drunks. Because a
jet ski wake is the most puny, dinky, unusable wake there is. My dad had a
3-hp Evinrude on a 12-foot aluminum fishing boat and *that* made a better
wake than any jet ski I've ever seen.

Why do so many people buy them? I mean even their WAKES are useless!!!
Almost every other type of vessel has some redeeming qualities but I've yet
to find any for the jet ski. Except for mine, of course..... it's fun and if
you get tired of doing something with it set up one way, set it up another
way and give *that* a try.

Otherwise, aiming between the "K" and the "A" seems reasonable to me.


Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
www.nwkayaking.net
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From: Paul D. Hamilton <pdhamilton1_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 09:11:36 -0700
>Steve and some others have been back channel about things... and I 
>had already replied to him when I decided that it really has enough 
>for the group. So here it is. :)
>
>On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:03 AM, <Nole4ever_at_aol.com> wrote:
>>Yes, it is down.... a clean kill..... right between the "K and the 
>>A" of Kawasaki.

<snip>

>I am, in general, not happy with jet skis except when I'm driving 
>one. (Which is also, come to think of it, pretty much the way I look 
>at flying.) Well, when I'm driving mine. But as far as I'm concerned 
>the stories of kayakers capsized by the wakes of jet skis have 
>either been written by people who have never seen those itty-bitty 
>wakes or by drunks. Because a jet ski wake is the most puny, dinky, 
>unusable wake there is. My dad had a 3-hp Evinrude on a 12-foot 
>aluminum fishing boat and that made a better wake than any jet ski 
>I've ever seen.
>
>Why do so many people buy them? I mean even their WAKES are 
>useless!!! Almost every other type of vessel has some redeeming 
>qualities but I've yet to find any for the jet ski. Except for mine, 
>of course..... it's fun and if you get tired of doing something with 
>it set up one way, set it up another way and give that a try.
>
>Otherwise, aiming between the "K" and the "A" seems reasonable to me.
>
>Craig Jungers
>Moses Lake, WA
>http://www.nwkayaking.net

I loved Craig's message. I consider kayaks and jet skis to be natural 
enemies and diametrically opposed states of mind (you know like 
Heavan and Hell). However I do disagree with Craig on one item... 
where on a kayak would you mount a 50 caliber? Not to mention the hot 
casings flying back in your face if the wind is wrong...

No, I have thought of another approach that could be deployed from a 
kayak -- the bolo. Now I'm remembering this from a book I read in 
junior high school so I might be a bit fuzzy... but the Argentine 
cowboy "Gaucho" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaucho) used them 
as weapons and for sport. I believe some native people of the far 
north as well. Basically it's an arrangement of rock and ropes that 
you swing in a circle over your head, then let fly. Think of a sling, 
except there you hold onto the rope and hurl the rock, whereas here 
your throw the whole contraption away.

Apparently the thing is supposed to open up in flight and become a 
rotating circle as it flies in a straight line (probably takes a lot 
of practice). The fun part happens when any one of the stones at the 
end of the rope hits an object - the whole thing collapses around the 
struck object and tangles it up. Fun! Apprently the is how gauchos 
have sport after imbibing massive amounts of alcohol - one guy gets 
his horse up to a full gallop, the other guy tags the horse with the 
bolo, and the rider has to launch off the horse so as not to be 
crushed when they go down. I don't remember anything about whether 
the horses found it fun or not.

Anyway, these are the kinds of revenge fantasies that I come up with 
when the quiet majesty of my kayaking route is invaded by noisy 
smelly useless-wake-producing machine from Hell. Not that I'm 
prejudiced or anything!

Paul Hamilton
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From: Darryl Johnson <darryl_johnson_at_rogers.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:30:48 -0400
On 06/06/2010 12:11 PM, Paul D. Hamilton wrote:
> I loved Craig's message. I consider kayaks and jet skis to be natural
> enemies and diametrically opposed states of mind (you know like
> Heavan and Hell). However I do disagree with Craig on one item...
> where on a kayak would you mount a 50 caliber? Not to mention the hot
> casings flying back in your face if the wind is wrong...
>
> No, I have thought of another approach that could be deployed from a
> kayak -- the bolo. Now I'm remembering this from a book I read in
> junior high school so I might be a bit fuzzy... but the Argentine
> cowboy "Gaucho" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaucho) used them
> as weapons and for sport. I believe some native people of the far
> north as well. Basically it's an arrangement of rock and ropes that
> you swing in a circle over your head, then let fly. Think of a sling,
> except there you hold onto the rope and hurl the rock, whereas here
> your throw the whole contraption away.
>
> Apparently the thing is supposed to open up in flight and become a
> rotating circle as it flies in a straight line (probably takes a lot
> of practice). The fun part happens when any one of the stones at the
> end of the rope hits an object - the whole thing collapses around the
> struck object and tangles it up. Fun! Apprently the is how gauchos
> have sport after imbibing massive amounts of alcohol - one guy gets
> his horse up to a full gallop, the other guy tags the horse with the
> bolo, and the rider has to launch off the horse so as not to be
> crushed when they go down. I don't remember anything about whether
> the horses found it fun or not.
>
> Anyway, these are the kinds of revenge fantasies that I come up with
> when the quiet majesty of my kayaking route is invaded by noisy
> smelly useless-wake-producing machine from Hell. Not that I'm
> prejudiced or anything!
>
> Paul Hamilton
>    
The bolo idea made me think back on a few summers ago when a fellow with 
a SeaDoo boat spent an entire weekend trying to extricate a length of 
rope that had gotten up into the works on the propulsion system (shared 
by the PWC, I believe). And therein lies a potential answer. It has 
deniability, low impact on the environment, and is cheap to implement.

Cut lengths of plastic rope (it needs to float) and deploy them in the 
areas where the PWC are swarming. I suspect you'd need at least a 6' 
length. It would be nice if you could find rope that wasn't yellow or 
any other colour that made it easy to spot (and avoid). Once one of the 
pieces of rope gets snarled up in the PWC's engine, they're done for the 
day. When more ropes are spotted, the other PWC riders will vacate the 
area quickly, so as to avoid damage to their own machine.

I realize this isn't going to help when you're trying to go from point A 
to point B. But it can be a boon to people paddling the same areas, 
especially lakes where the current isn't going to float the ropes away 
any time soon.

-- 
   Darryl

Do you think PWC riders spend time thinking about ways to deter kayakers?
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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:41:20 -0700
>Why do so many people buy them? I mean even their WAKES are
>useless!!! Almost every other type of vessel has some redeeming
>qualities but I've yet to find any for the jet ski. Except for mine,
>of course..... it's fun and if you get tired of doing something with
>it set up one way, set it up another way and give that a try.



If you get bored you could do like some jet skiers I've observed. You could
run down ducklings, or maybe find a group of slow moving kayaks to use as
slalom gates. Or maybe if only one kayaker is available you could run straight
at them and then turn at the last second and blast them with spray. Or you
could find a narrow estuary and race up and around its blind corners as fast
as you can. Don't worry, the kayakers that might be in there can hear you
coming and will scramble to the inside bank to get out of your way as fast as
they can.



The bolo is three weights on the end of three striings tied in the center. You
hold one weight and swing the other two around yourself, letting go when the
two weights are headed for your target. The weights spread out into a circle
once you let go and when something is contacted by one of the strings the
weights wrap the strings up around the object (and tighten the curve of the
weights speeding them up and likely clobbering the object/target as they reach
maximum speed). This would probably work better on a water skier buzzing you
than a jet ski but then you would likely have to deal with his friends in the
high horsepower powerboat. So back to the pop-up deck mounted .50 caliber.
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:56:04 -0700
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:41 PM, MATT MARINER BROZE
<marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>wrote:

> ...............Or you
> could find a narrow estuary and race up and around its blind corners as
> fast
> as you can. Don't worry, the kayakers that might be in there can hear you
> coming and will scramble to the inside bank to get out of your way as fast
> as
> they can.
>

I've seen this in the waterway between Lake Samamish and Lake Washington but
it was not jet skiers doing it. A middle-aged guy and his girlfriend in a
boat so overpowered they could barely make it run in a straight line. He'd
give it full power and make two or three turns before it got away from
him... then repeat. I had thought about paddling this waterway but when I
witnessed this I decided not to attempt it. My guess is that this happens a
lot.


Craog
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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:37:28 -0700
Craig wrote:
>>>>>I've seen this in the waterway between Lake Samamish and Lake Washington
but it was not jet skiers doing it. A middle-aged guy and his girlfriend in a
boat so overpowered they could barely make it run in a straight line. He'd
give it full power and make two or three turns before it got away from him...
then repeat. I had thought about paddling this waterway but when I witnessed
this I decided not to attempt it. My guess is that this happens a lot.<<<<<<<


When I was a kid (probably around 55 years ago or more) they used to have a
powerboat race down the Sammamish Slough each Spring about daffodil time. Our
dad would take us to watch the mayhem at some of the harder corners. We
enjoyed watching some of the boats losing it in the corner and skidding up on
the bank. We never went to auto races though. This was probably because the
Slough race was free.
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From: Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:12:59 -0700
On Jun 10, 2010, at 8:37 PM, MATT MARINER BROZE wrote:

> When I was a kid (probably around 55 years ago or more) they used  
> to have a
> powerboat race down the Sammamish Slough each Spring about daffodil  
> time. Our
> dad would take us to watch the mayhem at some of the harder  
> corners. We
> enjoyed watching some of the boats losing it in the corner and  
> skidding up on
> the bank. We never went to auto races though. This was probably  
> because the
> Slough race was free.


I remember those Slough "hydro" races. Now we don't have the races,  
and the slough is being re-branded as the Sammamish River. Must be by  
some real estate types. I guess living next to an irrigation ditch  
doesn't sound as good as living next to a river.

Paul Montgomery
paul_at_paddleandoar.com
http://paddleandoar.com
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From: Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] kayaks and .50 cal......
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:14:21 +0000
Matt Broze wrote:  "So back to the pop-up deck mounted .50 caliber."


I think you guys are being quite silly, talking about using implements of destruction like this.  Giving people such negative ideas!  Really!

What y'all are missing is one of the most obvious and ethnographically correct weapon systems for a kayaker -- the atlatl and spear/dart.  Check http://www.hollowtop.com/atlatlbob.htm or any other good site for throwing sticks.  A Greenlandic atlatl is a multi-functioned instrument of selective destruction, and provides plausible deniability in the event of later encounters with the harbor patrol or marine police since it also serves as a rolling stick in extremis: there is no test to see if an atlatl has been "fired", and if the spear or darts associated with this stick are well sanded and properly weighted, there will be little in the way of fingerprint or other forensic evidence remaining -- and the missiles can be weighted to sink.  Go indigenous!

Joq
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