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From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com> subject: [Paddlewise] FW: storm seas long paddles staying upright Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:06:35 -0700 · This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:53 PDT

I sent two posts to Paddlewise on 7/9/2010. One appeared in the next digest
but the one below I have not seen in a digest since then. It seemed to get a
response from Chuck (after the other one in the digest) so it may have made it
to those Paddlewisers not on the digest (or maybe just to Chuck). Anyway, can
someone tell me if there is a reason it hasn't appeared on the digest and if
any other folks received it at all?

From: marinerkayaks_at_msn.com
To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] storm seas long paddles staying upright
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:48:24 -0700

Chuck Sutherland wrote:

>>>>I have used long (9 ft) paddles for more than 25 years. In my opinion,
the
southwest Greenland Inuit paddlers are able to use short paddles because of
their skill at rolling. Absent that skill, they would be using long paddles
(up to 10 ft) along with all of the other native paddlers of the eastern
arctic.

I believe this was a matter of doing what was necessary to survive in kayaks
in the Arctic environment. Long paddles provide the bracing to stay upright
even in rough water conditions and the leverage to control the boats in high
winds and rough seas.

Short paddles may be great for speed, but in current training little
consideration is given to survival in extreme paddling conditions.<<<<<<

If that is the case, then why are the Greenland "Storm" paddles so short? Do
they call them "Storm' paddles for some reason I don't understand?

I've written on this subject before so I hoped I could just go find them in my
files and save me a lot of typing and remembering. However, Bill Gates has
made that hard by making Windows Vista not be able to open older MS Word
files. This has frustrated me several times before but I've not found a fix.
The reason given in the error message is that it is not supported by my
"registry policy setting". Can anyone explain this to me and let me know if
there is a fix (and what the downside to using that fix might be)?

Here is a condensed version from the "paddles" section of our website:

"Length is the major determiner of a paddle's "gear ratio." We prefer shorter
blades so we can paddle in a lower gear (shorter paddle) and still have enough
shaft length between the blades to clear the kayak's deck and completely bury
the blade during the stroke. The longer shaft between the blades that results
from shorter blades allows more room to move our hands around to widen the
grip (this lowers your "gear" to accelerate or for stiff head winds). More
shaft also allows extending the paddle to one side for greater turning
leverage. This is especially nice in strong winds. A shorter length lowers the
swing weight and shortens the lever arm a strong wind can act upon. Having
your hand closer to the blade also gives you better control of the blade in
the water."

I found long paddles to be more awkward and more subject to the wind and water
turbulence. The long paddle stroke is either more off center (more turning
component) or too deep underwater to be quickly returned to the surface (such
as to make a quick brace). It also makes it much more difficult to paddle in
tight areas such as sea caves and rock gardens. My biggest objection to longer
paddles is that they feel to me that I'm going up a hill in high gear on a
bicycle and I end up slowing down to relieve the undue strain on my muscles.
The argument that it makes turning in high winds better doesn't stand up
because one can shift the shorter paddle to one side to get that benefit and
at the same time reduce the exposure of the upper blade to the high wind. I
have no trouble using a short wide blade at a low angle to the water in a
Greenland style stroke (even feathered). I like that low elbows at the side
body rotation stroke as an alternative to the high Euro stroke. I find it very
efficient and nearly as fast, but I don't have to give up the solid braces and
acceleration (and lower flutter rate and my hand warming drip rings) that the
Euro paddle provides to enjoy the benefits of the low stroke.

The only advantage I've seen to paddles longer than 220cm (for paddling most
single kayaks) is in large steep clapotis conditions off of sea cliffs when
the steep amplified standing waves create a much greater risk of the shorter
paddler experiencing an inadvertent "air" stroke. In that condition I have
learned to make sure my paddle blade is well buried before taking a real hard
stroke with it. And I know to paddle somewhat farther from shore where the
wave amplitude is somewhat reduced as well. Once strong wind is introduced
into this super steep random seas equation though, I'd go with the shorter
paddle (with shorter blades) any day.

Many years ago we had a custom paddle made by Lightning Paddles for Chuck that
was something like 9' long (275cm). Are you still using that short bladed Euro
style paddle Chuck? Do I recall something about the ACA getting on your case
for advocating long paddles?

------------------------------

I agree with most of what Carey Parks speculated upon and wrote except for the
following two points:

>>>>....That kayak tug-o-war might show longer GPs to be "better" than
shorter EPs. More HP put into the water more quickly.<<<<<<

I'm almost certain you will find just the opposite. Everything else being
equal the lower gear and faster stroke rate will win the tug of war every
time. This was demonstrated in the test tank at the Outdoor Retailer show in
Salt Lake City several years ago. Greg Barton was essentially "sucker punched"
by the Hobie companies pedal boat ringer into having a tug of war in the test
tank. The Hobie flipper powered craft won and (I'm sure as planned) used that
fact in their advertising. I'm sure Greg knew he could blow any flipper
powered boat away in top speed, but the catch for Greg was that those little
fast moving flippers were more efficient at a standstill than a big wing
paddle blade was and in the space between strokes Greg lost a little "ground"
each time his paddle was out of the water while the Hobie was under more
constant power and took advantage of those power gaps. A year later, and
somewhat wiser for Greg's experience, Greg's much heavier business partner,
and surf ski champion, Oscar Chalupski took up the challenge. The Hobie ringer
that year pedaled furiously and had almost dragged Oscar to defeat when he ran
out of steam and Oscar worked him back to eventually win the tug-of-war.
Having to accelerate Oscar's much greater mass between his mighty strokes
might well have been what had made the difference that time. The bottom line
is: how well a paddle works at zero speed is pretty unimportant anywhere but
at the start of a sprint race or when trying to accelerate quickly to catch a
wave so a tug of war result is pretty meaningless to most paddling.

>>>>>>Since we are mainly paddling distances, where explosive power is rarely
needed, it makes sense that a GP would be what we lean toward (once bias is
placed aside.) Or a smaller blade EP, but the nice thing about the GP is you
can vary the amount of paddle you are using at any one time.<<<<<<

Just because the Euro doesn't have a known advantage there doesn't mean it is
at any disadvantage, so this will make no "sense' to me until you tell me the
disadvantages or advantages of one over the other. I don't see the advantage
of varying the amount of the paddle blade that you use. Also, I don't see why
you couldn't do that with a partly submerged Euro as well. The disadvantage of
partially immersing either paddle is "ventilation". Air being sucked down in
front of the blade (behind the power face) from the surface reduces the grip
the paddle has on the water. The Greenland paddle suffers from this constantly
the Euro only seriously when the blade is not fully immersed. This is one of
the reasons the Greenland paddle doesn't accelerate the kayak as well as a
Euro when you power it hard. You also don't state any advantage to using only
part of your blade. If you mean it is to vary your power applied or energy
expended or to reduce stress on your muscles or joints, there are other easier
ways to do that than varying the amount of blade immersion you use. Two are:
1) don't paddle as hard and 2) shift your grip further apart on the shaft to
down shift to a lower gear.
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