A couple weeks ago I started a thread about using 3" minicell foam to custom-outfit a kayak cockpit for comfort & performance. Well, my cockpit is finally finished and I must say that it's a vast improvement over the "off-the-shelf" model. I followed instructions from Ken Rassmussen via the Feb '98 issue of Sea Kayaker magazine & sculpted a foam seat, hip braces & knee braces. After a day trip I noticed that the seat wasn't quite right, so I got out the Stanley Shur-form Shaver & dragon skin to shave down the trouble spots. Then I spent some time rolling at a pool session & decided the knee dimples needed to be deeper. Again - a half hour of sculpting did the job. Now, the whole thing fits like a glove and is extremely comfortable. I feel it was well worth the money and time required. One thing I would suggest - different from Ken's instructions - is to take the boat out for a paddle, at least a couple hours, to try things out before gluing in the fabric over the seat. I had to rip the fabric off to reshape the seat. You just can't tell if it's a good fit by sitting on it in the garage. A paddling friend of mine, Dan Hagen, also had a good idea. Instead of gluing the seat down, use some heavy-duty Velcro so that the seat can be easily moved to adjust the trim of the boat. Hip braces prevent lateral movement and the back band & foot pegs prevent any forward or reverse movement, so I think the Velcro would be sturdy enough to do the job, and it would be nice to be able to easily adjust the boat's trim for best performance in a changing sea state. Craig Olson Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon 16 and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. I have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get near the water (65F) to test it. Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger increments? Thanks Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > > How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon > 16 [18 ?] and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. > I have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get > near the water (65F) to test it. Ah, 65 F water -- last time I was in/on water that warm, I was in my bathtub! <grin> > Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger > increments? An inch can make a substantial difference -- remember, the paddler is by far the largest load increment in a yak. To see the effect of moving a 180 lb paddler's body an inch fore or aft, try a 10 lb weight 18 inches fore or aft of the CG of the system. A bag of lead shot is a good way to find how much/which way to move the seat. The CG is probably pretty much directly under the center of your butt, when you are in the yak. Mariner (in Seattle) makes yaks with seats which can be moved an inch or two fore or aft to get the trim you need. With a custom seat installation, you can achieve pretty much the same effect if you use Velcro to fix the seat in place, per comments Craig Olson made the other day. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
> Bob Denton wrote: > > > > How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon > > 16 [18 ?] and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. > > I have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get > > near the water (65F) to test it. > > Ah, 65 F water -- last time I was in/on water that warm, I was in my > bathtub! <grin> That is the air temperature...the ocean is 72F.. > > Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger > > increments? > > An inch can make a substantial difference -- remember, the paddler is by > far the largest load increment in a yak. To see the effect of moving a > 180 lb paddler's body an inch fore or aft, try a 10 lb weight 18 inches > fore or aft of the CG of the system. A bag of lead shot is a good way > to find how much/which way to move the seat. The CG is probably pretty > much directly under the center of your butt, when you are in the yak. This is not a foam seat, but an upgraded ABS seat from Eddyline. I have the option to place it within a 5 inch "window". > Mariner (in Seattle) makes yaks with seats which can be moved an inch or > two fore or aft to get the trim you need. With a custom seat > installation, you can achieve pretty much the same effect if you use > Velcro to fix the seat in place, per comments Craig Olson made the other > day. Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>Mariner (in Seattle) makes yaks with seats which can be moved an inch or >two fore or aft to get the trim you need. With a custom seat >installation, you can achieve pretty much the same effect if you use >Velcro to fix the seat in place, per comments Craig Olson made the other >day. > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR Be care full of velcroing your seat if the bottom is real flexible. One kayak I built had a flexing bottom and when I inched over a log my seat came loose and reattached a second later in a slightly different place which was very uncomfortable I could pull over to replace it correctly. Other than that I would and do velcro all my seats so I can adjust to the load. I Used the Heavy duty 2 inch self adhesive and still used contact cement. If you don't use marine, or heavy duty velcro it does not seem to stick together very well when wet. my 2 cents Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
At 07:07 AM 2/10/98 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote: snip----------> >An inch can make a substantial difference -- remember, the paddler is by >far the largest load increment in a yak. To see the effect of moving a >180 lb paddler's body an inch fore or aft, try a 10 lb weight 18 inches >fore or aft of the CG of the system. A bag of lead shot is a good way >to find how much/which way to move the seat. The CG is probably pretty >much directly under the center of your butt, when you are in the yak. Sort of on topic-I weigh in at a socking wet 138 lbs. I've heard that my Pursuit would paddle measurably better with a heavier paddler. [and no I didn't offer to sell it to the 180 pounder that said it! <g>] My question: Would the addition of bags of lead shot in the fore and after compartments be a viable alternative to loading it with "kind of junk that's heavy and will fit in the hatch?" <G> It sounds good-I'm guessing that I'd then want to put air bags on top of them to keep them stable-or would velcro suffice? The idea of having say 10 or 20 lbs of the stuff flopping around during a roll. or brace doesn't interest me at all... Lastly, where does one purchase bags of lead shot? Is it ridiculously expensive? Guess I'd never given consideration to using lead before... Tom... Three left turns often make a right... <http://www.isomedia.com/homes/gadfly/> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
> > My question: Would the addition of bags of lead shot in the fore and after > compartments be a viable alternative to loading it with "kind of junk > that's heavy and will fit in the hatch?" <G> It sounds good-I'm guessing > that I'd then want to put air bags on top of them to keep them stable-or > would velcro suffice? The idea of having say 10 or 20 lbs of the stuff > flopping around during a roll. or brace doesn't interest me at all... > > Lastly, where does one purchase bags of lead shot? Is it ridiculously > expensive? Guess I'd never given consideration to using lead before... > > Tom... I am very new to this group- in fact, never paddled before- got to do my research though. I do work in metal however, and if this sort of ballast is reccomended, you might try sheet lead which is very easy to conform to any shape, including the inside of the hull. Lead is a very toxic substance to touch (builds over time), so handle with extreme care. also coat it with an epoxy paint to protect yourself and eliminate galvanic reactions to any other metal it comes into contact with(less of a problem with lead as in steel, copper, brass)- this reaction is compounded with saltwater. You might find the stuff at a salvage yard, it was used extensively as a roof liner. > Gabriel..................................... http://users.aol.com/romeug .....furniture ................................ http://users.aol.com/romeugp ....paintings, photographs, intaglios, objects (this page is always under construction and update...all frames) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
TomTotem... wrote: > My question: Would the addition of bags of lead shot in the fore and after > compartments be a viable alternative to loading it with "kind of junk > that's heavy and will fit in the hatch?" <G> [snip] > Lastly, where does one purchase bags of lead shot? Is it ridiculously > expensive? Guess I'd never given consideration to using lead before... Another poster suggested something even better: lead sheet. You could probably bond Velcro to a cover sewn to fit the sheet and then attach that to velcro contact cemented to the hull. However, you would not want to put ballast into fore and aft compartments -- decreases yaks ability to respond quickly to pitch and yaw forces. You would not like its sluggish turning behavior. It would be best to put it as close to the CG as possible -- just fore and aft of your butt (or, underneath), and as low as possible. Another idea is to investigate a yak more fitted to your body style. I weigh 220 lbs, so I need a high volume yak. That's what I own. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>Another poster suggested something even better: lead sheet. You could >probably bond Velcro to a cover sewn to fit the sheet and then attach >that to velcro contact cemented to the hull. Hmmm-slick! I'll put this on the to-do list... thanks! >However, you would not want to put ballast into fore and aft >compartments -- decreases yaks ability to respond quickly to pitch and >yaw forces. You would not like its sluggish turning behavior. It would >be best to put it as close to the CG as possible -- just fore and aft of >your butt (or, underneath), and as low as possible. Hmmmm! I hadn't given that possibility a thought-my rationale was more to limit the amount of lead required. Now that you mention it though it does make sense... >Another idea is to investigate a yak more fitted to your body style. I >weigh 220 lbs, so I need a high volume yak. That's what I own. Ahhh.... but what of my "stranded investment"??? <G> Dave, I still haven't gotten off my b_tt and looked for a job! <G> At $2200 a pop, I can only afford to do a little more trial and error... ;-) Heh-really, the day with G. Gronseth helped me learn to handle the boat much better, still... Nothing is so good it can't be improved! -Based upon your suggestion I am more seriously considering a "NWK Sportee" this spring, however I'm 6'0" but find the cockpit of my boat is more comfortable than those of lower volume boats I've sat in... <shrug> Meantime I'll see if I can find a place that sells sheet lead and give it a try [hopefully] soon. Almost got to the water Saturday, but the clouds came in, and I realized that I'd misplaced some of my gear when I moved last week... Perhaps this weekend.... Hey, thanks again Dave, always appreciate your help! Tom... [Kirkland, Wa.] Three left turns often make a right... <http://www.isomedia.com/homes/gadfly/> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
If there is room, why not pvc tubing filled with lead shot and positioned in line with the keel as someone once mentioned a while back , thereby providing for adjustable trim and ballast. Cheers, Philip Dave Kruger wrote: > TomTotem... wrote: > > > My question: Would the addition of bags of lead shot in the fore and after > > compartments be a viable alternative to loading it with "kind of junk > > that's heavy and will fit in the hatch?" <G> > [snip] > > Lastly, where does one purchase bags of lead shot? Is it ridiculously > > expensive? Guess I'd never given consideration to using lead before... > > Another poster suggested something even better: lead sheet. You could > probably bond Velcro to a cover sewn to fit the sheet and then attach > that to velcro contact cemented to the hull. > > However, you would not want to put ballast into fore and aft > compartments -- decreases yaks ability to respond quickly to pitch and > yaw forces. You would not like its sluggish turning behavior. It would > be best to put it as close to the CG as possible -- just fore and aft of > your butt (or, underneath), and as low as possible. > > Another idea is to investigate a yak more fitted to your body style. I > weigh 220 lbs, so I need a high volume yak. That's what I own. > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon > 16 and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. I > have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get > near the water (65F) to test it. > Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger > increments? Yes, an inch will make a substantial difference on boat trim and handling characteristics. I would suggest moving it in smaller increments, say 1/2" or less at a time & then paddle to evaluate the effect. Craig Olson Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
I wonder how many boats that don't handle well are the results of an incorrectly placed seat? > Bob Denton wrote: > > How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon > > 16 and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. I > > have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get > > near the water (65F) to test it. > > Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger > > increments? > > Yes, an inch will make a substantial difference on boat trim and handling > characteristics. I would suggest moving it in smaller increments, say 1/2" or less > at a time & then paddle to evaluate the effect. > > Craig Olson > Bellingham, Washington > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > *************************************************************************** > > Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Bob Denton wrote: >> >>I wonder how many boats that don't handle well are the results of an >>incorrectly placed seat? quite a few, in my observations... makes a big difference in canoes as well. many RMCC members take advantage of the winter pool sessions to outfit their boats. bring pieces of foam, sculpted seats, etc, and a grease pencil, then check for trim. move stuff around. works well. and of course it's social!! putting it in the water [as others have mentioned] is the true test, especially with plastic boats, where the hull may change shape when on the water [doesn't happen near as much with glass boats ;-] mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: "I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week sometimes to make it up." -- Mark Twain, "The Innocents Abroad" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Bob wrote, > > How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon > 16 and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. I > have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get > near the water (65F) to test it. > > Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger > increments? When you replaced the seat did you move it aft? If so, what happened to the handling. Usually moving weight aft makes the boat track better but maneuverability suffers. How much you have to shift weight depends upon the boat's shape. Some boats are very sensitive to weight placement - some are not. Cheers John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
I believe the seat moved aft but it seemed to make the boat "wander". The tracking of this boat was exceptional for it's size (16 feet). The design of the old and new seat is different enough to make it a guestimation process. I hope to get some time on Sunday to play with the seat placement. > > > > > How critical is seat placement? I just replaced the seat in a Falcon > > 16 and the handling is now terrible...it no longer tracks properly. I > > have adjusted the seat an inch forward but it's too cold to get > > near the water (65F) to test it. > > > > Will an inch make any difference or should I be trying larger > > increments? > > When you replaced the seat did you move it aft? If so, what happened to the > handling. Usually moving weight aft makes the boat track better but > maneuverability suffers. How much you have to shift weight depends upon the > boat's shape. Some boats are very sensitive to weight placement - some are > not. > > > Cheers > John Winters > Redwing Designs > Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft > http://home.ican.net/~735769/ > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > *************************************************************************** > > Bob Denton Vice President Undersea Breathing Systems bob_at_dnax.com http://www.dnax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Bob Denton wrote: > I believe the seat moved aft but it seemed to make the boat "wander". > The tracking of this boat was exceptional for it's size (16 feet). > The design of the old and new seat is different enough to make it a > guestimation process. >From my time in a marathon flatwater canoe, a boat with no rocker... A bow heavy boat will tend to start out okay and then suddenly turn. A stern heavy boat will tend to wander and require more corrective strokes. Like everything, the more extreme the weight differential the worse the effect. I would expect less dramatic handling effects in a boat with more rocker. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Kirk Olsen wrote: >> >>On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Bob Denton wrote: >> >>> I believe the seat moved aft but it seemed to make the boat "wander". >>> The tracking of this boat was exceptional for it's size (16 feet). >>> The design of the old and new seat is different enough to make it a >>> guestimation process. >> >>From my time in a marathon flatwater canoe, a boat with no rocker... >> >>A bow heavy boat will tend to start out okay and then suddenly turn. >> >>A stern heavy boat will tend to wander and require more corrective >>strokes. >> >>Like everything, the more extreme the weight differential the worse >>the effect. I would expect less dramatic handling effects in a boat >>with more rocker. >> >>kirk >> more dramatic!! a paddling partner and i demonstrated a jam turn in a tandem whitewater canoe, and then demonstrated the wet exit immediately afterwards ;-) and there was only 20 pounds [9Kg] difference between us, though that puts the occupants a stone over 185Kg [no i won't convert that to USEnglish <8-)} this really isn't true... i do believe [and the boat designers out there should really answer] you are correct. it also depends on how narrow the entry line, and other factors, but generally, the white water boat will slide more that a flat keeled boat. i out weigh my wife by a lot, and am the stronger paddler, so by one token i should be in the front, and by the other, i should be in the rear. when i am in the bow, if we initiate a turn, man are we going... ready or not. mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: Flugg's Law: When you need to knock on wood is when you realize that the world is composed of vinyl, naugahyde and aluminum. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Mark Zen wrote: > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Kirk Olsen wrote: > > >>Like everything, the more extreme the weight differential the worse > >>the effect. I would expect less dramatic handling effects in a boat > >>with more rocker. > > more dramatic!! You are quite right. I meant unintentional handling characteristics. > a paddling partner and i demonstrated a jam turn in a > tandem whitewater canoe, and then demonstrated the wet exit immediately > afterwards ;-) and there was only 20 pounds [9Kg] difference between us, Ah, but if you had kept the boat upright the "class" would have learned less ;-) > i out weigh my wife by a lot, and am > the stronger paddler, so by one token i should be in the front, and by the > other, i should be in the rear. when i am in the bow, if we initiate a > turn, man are we going... ready or not. Sure you're going to turn wonderfully, but how easy will it be to stop turning, assuming you still have some momentum.... Gotta love those "power spins" that won't stop until you perform a counter stroke or the boat stops moving (forward, backward, and sideways). kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Craig Olson wrote: > > A couple weeks ago I started a thread about using 3" minicell foam to custom-outfit > a kayak cockpit for comfort & performance. Well, my cockpit is finally finished and > I must say that it's a vast improvement over the "off-the-shelf" model [major snip] > > A paddling friend of mine, Dan Hagen, also had a good idea. Instead of gluing the > seat down, use some heavy-duty Velcro so that the seat can be easily moved to adjust > the trim of the boat.[snip] Good idea. Do you know if Dan has a source for the heavy-duty velcro? I'm about to lay down my initial attempt at a minicell seat for my Pygmy Osprey Std and I'm using duct tape during the trial-and-error phase. But, I'm sure the velcro will be plenty sturdy to immobilize the seat. I would imagine contact cement would work on both surfaces to adhere the velcro, but maybe there is an industrial-grade velcro with adhesive already on it. BTW, did you ever get that little ammo can stove going? Just curious. Second BTW: I could not get your email address (craigo_at_az.com) to work, so this is posted to the list. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > ... > Good idea. Do you know if Dan has a source for the heavy-duty velcro? > ... I suspect that there are many places you can get it. If you don't have any luck locally, I believe that Western Canoeing in Abbotsford BC (which does mail order) has heavy duty strips in stock that are used for installing adjustable foot braces in whitewater canoes. (They had it there last time I was in the shop--about 6 months ago.) Their number is 604-853-9320. I am not 100% certain that they still have it, but it's worth a try if you can't find it elsewhere. Make sure you tell them that you don't want the foot braces attached! Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
At 09:59 AM 2/18/98 -0800, Dan Hagen wrote: >Dave Kruger wrote: > >> ... >> Good idea. Do you know if Dan has a source for the heavy-duty velcro? >> ... Try a cloth store that sells bulk material, though you might be the only guy in there Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Dan Hagen wrote: >> >>Dave Kruger wrote: >> >>> ... >>> Good idea. Do you know if Dan has a source for the heavy-duty velcro? >>> ... >> >>I suspect that there are many places you can get it. If you don't have >>any luck locally, I believe that Western Canoeing in Abbotsford BC >>(which does mail order) has heavy duty strips in stock that are used for >>installing adjustable foot braces in whitewater canoes. (They had it >>there last time I was in the shop--about 6 months ago.) Their number is >>604-853-9320. I am not 100% certain that they still have it, but it's >>worth a try if you can't find it elsewhere. Make sure you tell them >>that you don't want the foot braces attached! >> >>Dan Hagen >>Bellingham, Washington if you don't find any there, and you go looking around, be aware there are many "grades" of "hook and loop" [velcro is a brand name ;-) ... in the service, we used some on parachutes that could be reused only a few times before it lost its "stick" but it took tremendous forces to pull apart. so some is really sticky, and can only be used a few times, others aren't as sticky, and are reusable more times than worth counting ;-) mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: Now I lay me down to sleep I pray the double lock will keep; May no brick through the window break, And, no one rob me till I awake. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
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