Hutchinson, Washburne or someone like that suggested a corollary between paddle choice and gears on a bicycle. Now, I'm fairly new to kayaking, but I raced bicycles for years and know a thing or two about gear choice: Higher gears and a lower cadence (turnover) put strains on muscles and joints. In bicycling, the knees go first with high gear pedaling, but they're followed by hips, ankles, sciatica. . . Washburne I think suggests that shorter paddles with less "purchase" are like lower gears on a bicycle. Higher turnover results in less stress on elbows, shoulders, wrists. . . While it's difficult to reach the same maximum speed with lower gears on a bicycle, it's more efficient to sustain a moderately fast pace over a long distance by using lower gears. Discussions on this server about the difference in racing paddles/style and touring paddles/style suggests parallels between gear choice and paddle choice. In essence, one has the option of distributing effort between resistance and tempo. Extending this concept to weight training. . . low resistance (weight) and high repetition trains for endurance, while high resistance and low repetition builds muscle mass --and also leads to muscle tears and joint injuries. In this application, repetition would relate to paddling or pedaling cadence. Weight/resistance correlates to gear size or paddle length/purchase area. While it's entirely possible to choose too low a gear in cycling, most riders choose gears that are too high. The risk of riding in high gears is injury. This rule seems also to apply to paddling choices. I use a Eddyline Windswift paddle in 230 cm. and and adopt a low profile paddling style which seems to put less strain on shoulders. I still have an elbow problem, but it might be aggravated from typing on the keyboard most of the day. . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Geo. Bergeron wrote: >> >> Hutchinson, Washburne or someone like that suggested a corollary >>between paddle choice and gears on a bicycle. Now, I'm fairly new to >>kayaking, but I raced bicycles for years and know a thing or two about gear >>choice: >> >> Higher gears and a lower cadence (turnover) put strains on muscles >>and joints. In bicycling, the knees go first with high gear pedaling, but >>they're followed by hips, ankles, sciatica. . . >> >> Washburne I think suggests that shorter paddles with less "purchase" >>are like lower gears on a bicycle. Higher turnover results in less stress on >>elbows, shoulders, wrists. . . >> >> While it's difficult to reach the same maximum speed with lower >>gears on a bicycle, it's more efficient to sustain a moderately fast pace >>over a long distance by using lower gears. Discussions on this server about >>the difference in racing paddles/style and touring paddles/style suggests >>parallels between gear choice and paddle choice. In essence, one has the >>option of distributing effort between resistance and tempo. Extending this >>concept to weight training. . . low resistance (weight) and high repetition >>trains for endurance, while high resistance and low repetition builds muscle >>mass --and also leads to muscle tears and joint injuries. In this >>application, repetition would relate to paddling or pedaling cadence. >>Weight/resistance correlates to gear size or paddle length/purchase area. >> >> While it's entirely possible to choose too low a gear in cycling, >>most riders choose gears that are too high. The risk of riding in high gears >>is injury. This rule seems also to apply to paddling choices. I use a >>Eddyline Windswift paddle in 230 cm. and and adopt a low profile paddling >>style which seems to put less strain on shoulders. I still have an elbow >>problem, but it might be aggravated from typing on the keyboard most of the >>day. . . this make a lot of sense. my expertise in bicycling led me to a similar conclusion, except i didn't know quite how to achieve it [that i needed a higher cadence, with less pressure]... thanks george, mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: The goal of science is to build better mousetraps. The goal of nature is to build better mice. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Geo. Bergeron wrote: < snip > > Higher gears and a lower cadence (turnover) put strains on muscles > and joints. In bicycling, the knees go first with high gear pedaling, but > they're followed by hips, ankles, sciatica. . .< snip > > Washburne I think suggests that shorter paddles with less "purchase" > are like lower gears on a bicycle. Higher turnover results in less stress on > elbows, shoulders, wrists. . .< snip > This is very much like my experience. I'm probably one of those cyclers-and-paddlers who does everything in too high a gear. But I find that it is more comfortable to do things in higher gear (or with a slightly wider paddle) - I seem to be more able to keep the cadence down and get a reasonable momentum going and keep moving, whereas going at higher cadence and less power per stroke it feels like I'm burning up much more energy to go less distance. I'm not particularly speedy on a bike or in a kayak - perhaps above average for my height and gender, but definitely no racer or anything. But I find myself wondering whether simply some people's bodies are more comfortable going along in a higher gear to accomplish the same speed or distance that others would comfortably do in lower gear. I have always biked in high gears (not up mountains, I should say, mostly just around town) and find that downshifting is a more strenuous way to cover distance. (Also much less fun.) Probably I am risking my shoulder, knees, etc. - but is there also an element to this that is simply a function of how different people's bodies get the best momentum? And on a completely different note - a paddle design question. Paddle shaft design, to be more specific. I am in the market for a new paddle, and so I have been trying some out. My current paddle, which is a rather modest Sawyer that I bought when I started paddling two years ago, has a round shaft. I paddle unfeathered, since feathering seems like it would hurt my wrists right away. I like the Sawyer very well, just need a second paddle so I'll have a spare. But I want it to be something I like paddling as much as I like the Sawyer. I've been trying other paddles, looking for something light and easy. Most reasonably good paddles have oval shafts. (This year's version of the same Sawyer also does - otherwise I'd just get another of what I have.) The front of the oval is designed to fit in the second joint of the fingers, with the top edge of the blade lined up with the knuckles. However, I find that if I hold a paddle that way I have to bend my wrist up on every stroke, or else the blade comes into the water at the wrong angle and dives down into the water along its edge instead of being perpendicular to the surface and nicely pushing the water. I can't bend my wrist every stroke - that's why I paddle unfeathered, so I won't have to. Does anyone else have this problem? And does anyone have suggestions for how/where to find a good paddle that doesn't have an oval shaft? I talked to folks from Boreal and Werner at some length at PaddleSport, but they had never heard of people having this problem. The Boreal folks add an additional piece to their paddles to make the oval, so conceivably I could special order one with that placed correctly for my wrists (rotated around 15 degrees from where other people want it) or order one without that piece. (If I wanted to pay $360 for their most wonderfully light paddle, that is!) The Werner person said he thought they actually buy the shaft pieces circular, and then reshape them, so perhaps I could special order one not-reshaped. Does anyone know of other options? And any paddle designers out there, please tell me why everyone else doesn't have this problem, if you have any idea! Joy Hecht Arlington VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Joy Hecht wrote: > ... I'm probably one of those > cyclers-and-paddlers who does everything in too high a gear. But I find that it is > more comfortable to do things in higher gear (or with a slightly wider paddle) - I > seem to be more able to keep the cadence down and get a reasonable momentum going > and keep moving, whereas going at higher cadence and less power per stroke it feels > like I'm burning up much more energy to go less distance. I'm not particularly > speedy on a bike or in a kayak - perhaps above average for my height and gender, but > definitely no racer or anything. But I find myself wondering whether simply some > people's bodies are more comfortable going along in a higher gear to accomplish the > same speed or distance that others would comfortably do in lower gear. I have > always biked in high gears (not up mountains, I should say, mostly just around town) > and find that downshifting is a more strenuous way to cover distance. (Also much > less fun.) It's a matter or training and learning to spin fast on a bike, and probably the same in a kayak. Once you lern to do it, you'll find it is *much* easier to go fast and interestingly enough, much more efficient, too. Various studies have shown that the most biomechanically efficient pedaling cadence is around 75, which is clase to what it turns out the top racers do on very long tours. But they have different physicology from you and I; these are filks who can cruise at 26mph for 120 miles with regular sprints to 30 or 40 mph. Most of us profit by spinning a little faster; we get less lactic acid buildup in the muscles and place less strain on our joints and connective tissues. If you practice spinning fast- 90 rpm minimum, and up to 120 or 180, you'll find it uncomfortable at first, but as you gain experience you'll find it more efficent. You'll also find you can maintain higher speeds for longer periods of time, too. Paddling is probably very similar. I have a number of paddles, including a Werner Little Dipper, and while I am still very much a beginner when it comes to paddling technique, I find that once I adjust to the Little Dipper I can maintain a cadence for much longer than I can with shorter, wider paddles. > Probably I am risking my shoulder, knees, etc. - but is there also an element to > this that is simply a function of how different people's bodies get the best > momentum? Yes, but to far lesser degree than you suggest. Miguel Indurain is 6'2" and went 90 miles at an average speed of 32 mph (!) in a time trial in the Tour d'France. He spins in the 80s. When you're that strong you can think about spinning more slowly ;-) -- Michael Edelman http://www.mich.com/~mje Telescope guide: http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html Folding Kayaks: http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html Airguns: http://www.mich.com/~mje/airguns.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Joy Hecht wrote: >> >>Geo. Bergeron wrote: >> >>< snip > >>> Higher gears and a lower cadence (turnover) put strains on muscles >>> and joints. In bicycling, the knees go first with high gear pedaling, but >>> they're followed by hips, ankles, sciatica. . .< snip > >>> Washburne I think suggests that shorter paddles with less "purchase" >>> are like lower gears on a bicycle. Higher turnover results in less stress on >>> elbows, shoulders, wrists. . .< snip > >> >>This is very much like my experience. I'm probably one of those >>cyclers-and-paddlers who does everything in too high a gear. But I find that it is >>more comfortable to do things in higher gear (or with a slightly wider paddle) - I >>seem to be more able to keep the cadence down and get a reasonable momentum going >>and keep moving, whereas going at higher cadence and less power per stroke it feels >>like I'm burning up much more energy to go less distance. I'm not particularly >>speedy on a bike or in a kayak - perhaps above average for my height and gender, but >>definitely no racer or anything. But I find myself wondering whether simply some >>people's bodies are more comfortable going along in a higher gear to accomplish the >>same speed or distance that others would comfortably do in lower gear. I have >>always biked in high gears (not up mountains, I should say, mostly just around town) >>and find that downshifting is a more strenuous way to cover distance. (Also much >>less fun.) >> >>Probably I am risking my shoulder, knees, etc. - but is there also an element to >>this that is simply a function of how different people's bodies get the best >>momentum? yes, you are risking your knees, quite a bit. probably the shoulders too, although i'm not anywhere near an authority on kayak paddling. most people peddle their bicycles way too slowly [cadence, not mph/kph] and don't realize how much strain they really are putting on their knees. it does take a lot of practice, at first. once you are used to it, you'll wonder how you could have ever done anything else. [snip] >> >> >>Joy Hecht >>Arlington VA mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it. -- Mae West --- Yield to Temptation ... it may not pass your way again. -- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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