I have thought about getting a Palm buoyancy aid (PFD) but noticed that they were not US Coast Guard approved. Do those of you using them just figure that because you obviously have a PFD on, no one will check to see if it is approved? Also, I have wondered if I was out and did get checked, what would happen? Would I get a ticket, not be allowed to continue, or what? If someone really was going to enforce this, it wouldn't take them long to learn to look for the Palm logo (and/or rear pocket or whatever) know if it was approved or not. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> I have thought about getting a Palm buoyancy aid (PFD) but noticed that > they were not US Coast Guard approved. Do those of you using them just > figure that because you obviously have a PFD on, no one will check to > see if it is approved? Also, I have wondered if I was out and did get > checked, what would happen? Would I get a ticket, not be allowed to > continue, or what? If someone really was going to enforce this, it > wouldn't take them long to learn to look for the Palm logo (and/or rear > pocket or whatever) know if it was approved or not. If you are an adult, the rules only require you to have an approved PFD on board. Just because you have an approved one stuffed in your rear hatch, doesn't mean you can't wear the PFD that *you* trust and prefer. At least thats the way Texas law goes. Your state may be different. So go to Academy, and buy a $15 coast guard approved vest, and use it as extra boyouncy, then wear the vest you think best fits your needs. As to checking to see if a vest is approved, our Game Wardens down here will write you a ticket asap for using an unapproved PFD for fulfilling your legal requirement. Sheriffs offices will also often send folks to public boat ramps to check powerboaters coming off the bay for fire extinguishers; I wouldn't put it past them to check to see if you have an approved vest onboard. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Frank Lucian wrote: > > I have thought about getting a Palm buoyancy aid (PFD) but noticed that > they were not US Coast Guard approved. Do those of you using them just > figure that because you obviously have a PFD on, no one will check to > see if it is approved? Also, I have wondered if I was out and did get > checked, what would happen? Would I get a ticket, not be allowed to > continue, or what? Enforcement in my area is nonexistent for paddlecraft, except whenever the Sheriff's Marine Patrol is out. Informally, USCG personnel say they are happy people wear ANY PFD, in lieu of none. Same is true in Canada, in my experience. Used to be a restriction on the color of PFD in Canada -- I was paranoid because my USCG-approved vest was the wrong color. Nobody notices. OTOH, if you were running a charter boat for hire or a USCG-certified vessel, there would be inspections, albeit random and infrequent. Around here, sometimes a power boat is boarded and checked out. They write people up for no life jackets, no fire extinguisher, etc. Not enough enforcement personnel to keep track of a few random sea kayakers. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 Dave Kruger wrote: > >Enforcement in my area is nonexistent for paddlecraft, except whenever >the Sheriff's Marine Patrol is out. Informally, USCG personnel say they >are happy people wear ANY PFD, in lieu of none. Same is true in Canada, >in my experience. Used to be a restriction on the color of PFD in >Canada -- I was paranoid because my USCG-approved vest was the wrong >color. Nobody notices. > I am a Canadian in the market for another PFD, so was interested in the recent submissions. I receive a bi-annual catalogue of a major Canadian outdoor recreational equipment co-operative. In their Spring/Summer 1997 catalogue they listed four models of a Canadian PFD manufacturer. Of the four, one was not Transport Canada approved as it had a number of pockets, with the potential to be overfilled, another was available in both Teal and International Orange, with only the International Orange being Transport Canada approved. A third was also not approved, with no reason given. I understand that expensive tests are required in order to get US Coast Guard approval. I am interested in an inflatable PFD, manufactured in Washington Stat, a Storm Seas unit, but they either were not US Coast Guard approved, or else were not subjected to the test. As $1.47 Canadian purchases $1 US currency, the Canadian products look attractive. Rick Brundrige British Columbia, Canada P.S. I am a few days behind times with the volumes of e-mail now received. I look forward to the weekend to get caught up. What will happen when the ice melts and paddling season returns? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The PFD is a frustrating topic particularly where regulatory approvals are involved. I really like my inflatable PFD (Stearns) but it is not Canadian Coast Guard approved so I stuff a cheap approved jacket up in the bow to satisfy the law. For years I used a green Seda jacket that was not approved and no one ever said anything about it but I'd bet that if anything ever happened to me some one would say "Yeah. he didn't have an approved jacket." Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 22:05:45 -0800, you wrote: >> I have thought about getting a Palm buoyancy aid (PFD) but noticed that >> they were not US Coast Guard approved. <snip> > >Enforcement in my area is nonexistent for paddlecraft, except whenever >the Sheriff's Marine Patrol is out. Informally, USCG personnel say they >are happy people wear ANY PFD, in lieu of none. Same is true in Canada, >in my experience. Used to be a restriction on the color of PFD in >Canada -- I was paranoid because my USCG-approved vest was the wrong >color. Nobody notices. <snip> I had an interesting chat with Cdn Coast Guard officers - very nice people BTW, at a recent Canoe/Kayak show and then by telephone today. At the show, given that I was very pleased with my new Lotus Strait jacket, I was showing it to an officer when she mentioned that it wasn't approved in Canada, so I could be fined $200. Afterwards, I thought of the extensive (water) border between Canada and the USA and all the water craft that goes back & forth, so I sought some clarification on the fact that the USCG approved and UL tested Lotus PFD would not be acceptable (please ignore the practical aspects of this, as it might never happen in the "real" world of inspections, etc.). Anyway, what I was told was that a Cdn had to have a Cdn-approved PFD in Cdn waters, while an American could have an USA-approved PFD in Cdn waters, unless it was a Cdn-rented boat then it had to be a Cdn-approved PFD. Got that???? :-) In other words, if an American friend and I were sitting in our kayaks on a Canadian lake in identical boats (his/her bought in the USA and mine in Canada) and we were wearing identical Lotus PFDs, s/he would be ok and I would not be. I could be fined $200. If s/he was in a rented Cdn boat but wanted to wear his/her favorite PFD, that would not be ok, unless there was also a Cdn approved PFD in the boat (the Northern Ontario Tourism industry may/may not have been able to modify some of this...) If the bass fisher from Pennsylvania comes to Canada with boat, motor, PFDs (USCG, but not CCG approved), etc. that is quite proper because it is "legal" in the place where the boat was registered. I am not certain if this is a reciprocal rule; but, imagine that I am going to the East Coast Canoe & Kayak Symposium (not hard to imagine because I am) and I am wearing my Lotus Strait jacket which, as mentioned, is USCG approved.... and I am asked where I am from, so I answer Canada and the officer then tickets me because my jacket is not approved in Canada, although all around me are paddlers in quite "legal" and safe Lotus PFDs. Could this be an episode of the "theatre of the absurd" if a USCG approved jacket could attract a US sanction (ticket/fine)? :-) As mentioned, it is quite unlikely to happen, but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on this... most likely the easy solution is for Lotus to gain CCG approval of its PFDs, but it is also worthwhile for paddlers to be aware of some possible sanctions depending on the mood of the officer (and his/her knowledge of the regulations). Apparently it is possible for me to avoid all of this hassle if I register my kayak in the USA, so then my PFD will conform to the "registration" of my boat. Can anyone recommend a good "state" of convenience for my British- built kayak, with a Canadian paddler, wearing a USCG approved PFD??? <very big grin> Happy Paddling and see you at the Symposium! -- cheers, Stephen stephen.bird_at_superaje.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Stephen Bird wrote: > > I had an interesting chat with Cdn Coast Guard officers - very nice people > BTW, at a recent Canoe/Kayak show and then by telephone today. At the show, > given that I was very pleased with my new Lotus Strait jacket, I was > showing it to an officer when she mentioned that it wasn't approved in > Canada, so I could be fined $200. big snip... > Apparently it is possible for me to avoid all of this hassle if I register > my kayak in the USA, so then my PFD will conform to the "registration" of > my boat. Can anyone recommend a good "state" of convenience for my British- > built kayak, with a Canadian paddler, wearing a USCG approved PFD??? > <very big grin> > > Happy Paddling and see you at the Symposium! > -- > cheers, Stephen stephen.bird_at_superaje.com Thanks for this enlightening discourse! Do you maybe not have quite enough to keep you busy? :-) Joy Hecht Arlington VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:01:49 -0500, you wrote: >> I had an interesting chat with Cdn Coast Guard officers <snip> >> Apparently it is possible for me to avoid all of this hassle <snip> >Thanks for this enlightening discourse! You are most welcome.... since I write about law and recreation I like to be accurate. :-) Imagine planning, driving, and ready to go on a trip when the leader/instructor says "sorry, you can't come with us, your PFD is not approved. go home" I wouldn't be very happy, would you? Imagine portaging around a lock on a waterway when a conservation/police officer decides to check your PFD and then tickets you.... neither is a happy scenario. >Do you maybe not have quite enough to keep you busy? :-) Is there a suggested length to postings? Should I write less, should you read less? The "water" is still ice here, so paddling is but a dream. -- cheers, Stephen stephen.bird_at_superaje.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Stephen Bird wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:01:49 -0500, you wrote: > > >> I had an interesting chat with Cdn Coast Guard officers <snip> > >> Apparently it is possible for me to avoid all of this hassle <snip> > >Thanks for this enlightening discourse! > > You are most welcome.... since I write about law and recreation I like to > be accurate. :-) Imagine planning, driving, and ready to go on a trip when > the leader/instructor says "sorry, you can't come with us, your PFD is not > approved. go home" I wouldn't be very happy, would you? Imagine portaging > around a lock on a waterway when a conservation/police officer decides to > check your PFD and then tickets you.... neither is a happy scenario. > > >Do you maybe not have quite enough to keep you busy? :-) I think what is most important is something you said earlier about the authorities being so happy to see anyone wearing a PFD. I doubt that any Coast Guard crew will pull you over, ask you to take off your PFD and show them the approved label inside _unless_ you are being reckless or in other ways drawing attention to yourself. In which case, you might get a thorough looking over. Same if you have the PFD tucked in the boat somewhere. Then, they might ask you to show them you have one in which case, conceivably, they might notice that there is no approval label inside. Moral: wear your PFd all the time and act responsibly. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph, I couldn't have said it better. :-) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:54:48 -0800, you wrote: >Moral: wear your PFd all the time and act responsibly. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:39 PM 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >I have thought about getting a Palm buoyancy aid (PFD) but noticed that >they were not US Coast Guard approved. Do those of you using them just >figure that because you obviously have a PFD on, no one will check to >see if it is approved? Also, I have wondered if I was out and did get >checked, what would happen? Considering the disparity between all types of PFDs, from cushions to Kmart versions to high-end fashion vests back to the old orange 1960s models that have been under the boat seat for 25 years, I doubt the rank and file Coast Guard officer would ever notice. I suspect they have more pressing matters than to deal with. Robert -- Orlando, FL ________________________________________________________ Robert Starling Member ASMP / APSG Robert Starling Photography, Inc. Orlando, Florida Phone 407 521-0041 Fax 407 521-0031 http://www.starling.com NetGuide Magazine Internet Site Of The Day *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Considering the disparity between all types of PFDs, from cushions to Kmart > versions to high-end fashion vests back to the old orange 1960s models that > have been under the boat seat for 25 years, I doubt the rank and file Coast > Guard officer would ever notice. I suspect they have more pressing matters > than to deal with. > > Robert -- Orlando, FL Don't yall have sheriffs and game wardens all over your waters? These guys make a living down here writing tickets for technical violations like PFD's, signalling, fire extinguishers, etc. Granted, I've never personally seen a ticket given to a kayaker yet, but there aren't a lot of us to begin with, so they may not view us as profit centers yet... :-> On a power boat, not only have I seen tickets given for incorrect PFD type, I've been on a boat where the driver got the ticket! Warden just put-put'ted up to us, checked fishing license, extinguisher, then PFD's; we didn't have the right type, so he wrote the ticket. Grrrr. [we honestly thought we did have the right type onboard, for what its worth.] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Stephen, > From: stephen.bird_at_superaje.com (Stephen Bird) > On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 01:01:49 -0500, you wrote: > > >> I had an interesting chat with Cdn Coast Guard officers <snip> > >> Apparently it is possible for me to avoid all of this hassle <snip> > >Thanks for this enlightening discourse! > > You are most welcome.... since I write about law and recreation I like to > be accurate. :-) Imagine planning, driving, and ready to go on a trip when > the leader/instructor says "sorry, you can't come with us, your PFD is not > approved. go home" I wouldn't be very happy, would you? Imagine portaging > around a lock on a waterway when a conservation/police officer decides to > check your PFD and then tickets you.... neither is a happy scenario. > > >Do you maybe not have quite enough to keep you busy? :-) > > Is there a suggested length to postings? Should I write less, should you > read less? The "water" is still ice here, so paddling is but a dream. Please accept my thank you for your input, Stephen. I was scratching my head over the question about how you spend your time especially when we are getting the valuable input at no charge. Please don't stop even when the water is no longer ice. :-) Cheers, Jackie (who would like to say THANKS for ALL valuable input from generous unpaid contributors) _ _ _ _ _ \\ / \0/ \ / \0/ \ \\ " " `\ ,sSSs,\, )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) \----+-------+-------'---`-----\-------------') ~~~~~~~ ~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> >Please accept my thank you for your input, Stephen. I was scratching my >head over the question about how you spend your time especially when we are >getting the valuable input at no charge. Please don't stop even when the >water is no longer ice. :-) > >Cheers, > >Jackie (who would like to say THANKS for ALL valuable input from generous > unpaid contributors) WHAT the check isn't in the mail and we don't get paid????? Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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