my ISP is down, so forwarding from work: --- On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Leander wrote: >>Interesting decision...although I don't think I could ever be comfortable >>agreeing to that, for several reasons. Part of it is coming from a >>background of things like boating, wildnerness camping and mountaineering, >>in which we understood that we would render aid when needed, even to >>strangers, and that it was everyone's responsibility to not only take care >>of themselves, but to take care of the others, should they get into trouble. >> Sometimes folks would get into trouble without realizing it was >>occuring...like gradually becoming hypothermic on a winter climb, for [snip] >> I would be interested to know how others approach this issue. >>Leander hi leander!! i can relate to this. this is a non-paddling story, but the idea, and events could happen paddling just as well. a bunch of years ago, a friend and i went backcountry skiing, in august. we wore tshirts and blue jeans, and headed for a local glacier. when we were leaving, we heard a scream, and when i looked, i looked in time to see a body "bounce" at the bottom of the glacier. i was the second person there. the story was; a group of college students from texas were exploring the glacier, as most had never really seen snow, especially in august. they were wearing shorts and tshirts. and sneakers... which got no traction at all. on guy slipped off the edge and fell about 200 feet. it was his body i saw bounce. when i got there,he was breathing again and had a pulse. the first guy gave him _one_ breath to start cpr, and that was all it had taken. remember ABC [airway, breathing, circulation]. the preliminary exam showed both legs broken, and the bones above the ankle protruding. he was lying head down, in a small stream. this water was coming off the glacier, so you can guess it's temperature!! there was no choice but to move him [a very bad thing, to be avoided unless the victim is in a deadly situation, which he was]. the road was 5 miles away, and from there a 6 mile drive to the nearest phone. to move the victim [the first 3 of us all had backcountry first aid training, and one was an EMT] we decided to move him 3 feet to the side, to place him on a flat rock... he regained concisness [sp?], and had to be calmed down, but in short, to prevent neck injury, i had to hold his head/neck/shoulders in place... until professional rescue folks showed up, almost three hours later. i left as flight-for-life arrived and landed. the entire drive back home, i had to listen to my "friend" complain how long we were delayed, and he had to give up his good ski poles to make a splint, and his wool hat, yadda, yadda, yadda... i have never spent more than 5 minutes with "jack" again, unless we were at a common friend's house or something... sometimes people aren't who you think they are. he was/had been, willing to just leave the guy there... so my thoughts _NOW_ are: absolutely know who your partners are, either personally, or from a trusted friend... #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: Paul's Law: You can't fall off the floor. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > the entire drive back home, i had to listen to my "friend" complain how > long we were delayed, and he had to give up his good ski poles to make a > splint, and his wool hat, yadda, yadda, yadda... > > i have never spent more than 5 minutes with "jack" again, unless we were > at a common friend's house or something... sometimes people aren't who you > think they are. he was/had been, willing to just leave the guy there... > > so my thoughts _NOW_ are: absolutely know who your partners are, either > personally, or from a trusted friend... > > #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- > mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. > Sometimes people start saying the most embarrasing and idiotic things as a symptom of anxiety. What I am reading from the guy complaining about using his ski poles is "gee... auch... I have never seen bones protruding out of anyone's skin, I am terrified and about to faint". You know the guy better than I do, and I bet that you are right about him, but it is also important to call attention to the symptoms of anxiety, saying stupid things is one of the first and most easy to recognize signs. - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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