Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of waterproofing charts and even field guides? Short of laminating it, I'm worried that several field guides that I'd like to take with me won't make it very far through the spring and summer. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:24 PM 5/5/98 -0500, Jack_Martin_at_jtif.webfld.navy.mil wrote: > Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of waterproofing > charts and even field guides? Short of laminating it, I'm worried > that several field guides that I'd like to take with me won't make it > very far through the spring and summer. > > Joq I use clear Krylon spray paint found in most stores. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of > waterproofing > charts and even field guides? Short of laminating it, I'm > worried > that several field guides that I'd like to take with me won't > make it > very far through the spring and summer. > Campmor sells something called Map Seal that's supposed to coat 6-8 maps/charts front & back. Claims it's salt-resistant, you can write on them and fold them indefinately. $5.99 for 8oz. I've heard of people using varnish or shellack (not sure which) but I'd be concerned with cracking. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:24 PM 5/5/98 -0500, Jack_Martin_at_jtif.webfld.navy.mil wrote: > Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of waterproofing > charts and even field guides? Short of laminating it, I'm worried > that several field guides that I'd like to take with me won't make it > very far through the spring and summer. > > You can buy a waterproofing material from many outdoor shops. I'm told that products like Thompson's Water Seal (wood waterproofing compound) work well. You can use it on your baidarka frame too...in fact, I think it's Brinck's Baidarka book that mentioned it. Wynne Americus, GA, USA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jack Martin spake: > > Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of waterproofing > > charts and even field guides? Short of laminating it, I'm worried > > that several field guides that I'd like to take with me won't make it > > very far through the spring and summer. > > > > Joq > And Dana eloquently replied: > I use clear Krylon spray paint found in most stores. > > Dana And Brad wondered: Will the map/chart flex/fold/crack after Krylon treatment? ********************************************************************** Bradford R. Crain E-mail: brad_at_mth.pdx.edu Dept. of Mathematics Phone: (503) 725-3127 Portland State Univ. FAX: (503) 725-3661 P.O. Box 751 Portland, Or. 97207 ********************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:05 PM 5/5/98 +0000, BRADFORD R. CRAIN wrote: > Jack Martin spake: > >> > Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of waterproofing >> > charts and even field guides? Short of laminating it, I'm worried >> > that several field guides that I'd like to take with me won't make it >> > very far through the spring and summer. >> > >> > Joq >> > And Dana eloquently replied: > >> I use clear Krylon spray paint found in most stores. >> >> Dana > > And Brad wondered: > > Will the map/chart flex/fold/crack after Krylon treatment? And Dana eloquently replied: kinda I have had good luck with it but any body trying it should experiment first with plain paper and if it does not work they will only be out the $3.00 for the paint. I do spray several light coats on both sides. I even use it on business card printed with my ink jet computer so they won't smear when they get wet. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
BRADFORD R. CRAIN wrote: > > Jack Martin spake: > > > > Anybody have any really clever, cheap, proven ways of waterproofing I xerox my charts/maps on clear acetate sheets used for overhead transpariencies. Water does not hurt them. I just slide them under my deck bungie to read them. -- Hal Wilton, NH Power your boat with carbohydrates, not hydrocarbons. http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin 0 \_O \============\==============/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 0 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hal Levine wrote: > I xerox my charts/maps on clear acetate sheets used for overhead > transpariencies. Water does not hurt them. I just slide them under my > deck bungie to read them. Clever idea. Does this give color renditions, or is it limited to black and white? Also, are you using 11 x 17 format or 8.5 x 11 format? If the latter, are the charts reduced at copying? Finally, what's the durability like? Thanks. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: >Clever idea. Does this give color renditions, or is it limited to black >and white? > >Also, are you using 11 x 17 format or 8.5 x 11 format? If the latter, >are the charts reduced at copying? > >Finally, what's the durability like? You could get color if you had a color copier. Not sure if your local Kinko copier shop would have a color copier or not. If you had a good color scanner and a color printer you could do the same. I wondered about the durability myself. I imagine that it depends on the type of ink that is put down. Probably some copiers/printers would be better than others. Brian. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Brian Heifner wrote: > > Dave Kruger wrote: > > >Clever idea. Does this give color renditions, or is it limited to black > >and white? > >Finally, what's the durability like? > > You could get color if you had a color copier. Not sure if your local > Kinko copier shop would have a color copier or not. [snip] > > I wondered about the durability myself. I imagine that it depends on > the type of ink that is put down. Probably some copiers/printers would > be better than others. The original poster responded to me and indicated his are BW, and VERY durable. My local color copy places (Lazerquik, and the local business supply place) say they can not do acetate sheets in their color copiers. I don't know the brands. Do you have confirmation of copier types which CAN do acetate sheets? If I could do it that way, I'd try it, because the lamination costs as much as the color copies ($1.50 per 11 x 17 sheet), and the laminate sometimes gets punctured. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have used some of the B&W charts on ocean trips for several years and they hold up very well. Another advantage is you can easily make multiple copies of the charts for others in your group. An additional plus is that you can isolate a section of a chart and have it enlarged on the acetate. If you do this make sure that a section of the scale is enlarged too. I have had excellent success with both marine charts and shoreline USGS maps. BTW be sure to make sure north and mag north are indicated on the section you copy. When the acetetes get wet surface tension keeps them stuck to the deck of my boat under the bungie and they don't blow around. Hal Wilton, NH Power your boat with carbohydrates, not hydrocarbons. http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin 0 \_O \============\==============/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 0 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Sorry to sound like a broken record. Canon's 400 and up series color copiers, Ricoh's entire line, and Xerox's Majestic and Docucolor can all pull acetate sheets. Just ask for color transparencies. They scratch rather easily though. Wynne (who doesn't work for Kinko's or Xerox anymore) Americus, GA USA At 08:05 AM 5/11/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Brian Heifner wrote: >> >> Dave Kruger wrote: >> >> >Clever idea. Does this give color renditions, or is it limited to black >> >and white? >> >Finally, what's the durability like? >> >> You could get color if you had a color copier. Not sure if your local >> Kinko copier shop would have a color copier or not. [snip] >> >> I wondered about the durability myself. I imagine that it depends on >> the type of ink that is put down. Probably some copiers/printers would >> be better than others. > >The original poster responded to me and indicated his are BW, and VERY >durable. My local color copy places (Lazerquik, and the local business >supply place) say they can not do acetate sheets in their color >copiers. I don't know the brands. Do you have confirmation of copier >types which CAN do acetate sheets? > >If I could do it that way, I'd try it, because the lamination costs as >much as the color copies ($1.50 per 11 x 17 sheet), and the laminate >sometimes gets punctured. > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Kinko's will have a color copier that will copy anything up to 11x17. The problems are the copyright on the maps/guidebooks and the paper you're asking them to use. As for copyright, check with the person at the counter; copyright compliance is their job. If they give you a permission form to sign, read it carefully, and if you don't have permission, don't get the copies. Be honest, don't lie, even though it'll get your copies made. The waterproof paper shouldn't be used unless it is spec'd for the particular copier. I wouldn't try to run it. Run it on regular "laser" paper and laminate it. Speaking of which, it'd be cheaper just to trim your map to less than 24" wide and laminate. Some Kinko's have 36" wide lamination. You could separate the pages of your guidebook (booklet as you described), roll laminate with 3 mil laminate, trim pretty close, restaple (or hot glue to avoid bleeding at the staple holes) Find a Kinko's by calling 1-800-4KINKOS, or check http://www.kinkos.com I sound like an ad--I was a Kinko's store manager and corporate trainer (including copyright, color copier, and laminator) for three years. I no longer work for them, but have a lot of respect for the corporate ideals, whether or not they get upheld by the employees. Mapcote works well too.... Wynne Americus, GA USA At 07:48 AM 5/11/98 -0700, Brian Heifner wrote: >Dave Kruger wrote: > >>Clever idea. Does this give color renditions, or is it limited to black >>and white? >> >>Also, are you using 11 x 17 format or 8.5 x 11 format? If the latter, >>are the charts reduced at copying? >> >>Finally, what's the durability like? > >You could get color if you had a color copier. Not sure if your local >Kinko copier shop would have a color copier or not. If you had a good >color scanner and a color printer you could do the same. > >I wondered about the durability myself. I imagine that it depends on >the type of ink that is put down. Probably some copiers/printers would >be better than others. > >Brian. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On May 11, 8:05am, Dave Kruger wrote: > The original poster responded to me and indicated his are BW, and VERY > durable. My local color copy places (Lazerquik, and the local business > supply place) say they can not do acetate sheets in their color > copiers. I don't know the brands. Do you have confirmation of copier > types which CAN do acetate sheets? > > If I could do it that way, I'd try it, because the lamination costs as > much as the color copies ($1.50 per 11 x 17 sheet), and the laminate > sometimes gets punctured. No I do not know of color copiers which can do acetate sheets. Where I use to work they had a Kodak (I think) that would do black and white acetate copies. I thought just about any copier would make overheads..... Tektronix makes color printers that will print on just about any thing, even tissue paper if I remember correctly. You wouldn't want to buy a Tek printer just for the purpose of making charts due to the cost. Maybe the technology hasn't made it to Astoria Dave? Or maybe it's all that salt in the air down your way that would rot the acetate copiers. ;-) Brian H. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Wynne Eden wrote: > > Kinko's will have a color copier that will copy anything up to 11x17. The > problems are the copyright on the maps/guidebooks and the paper you're > asking them to use. As for copyright, check with the person at the > counter; copyright compliance is their job. If they give you a permission > form to sign, read it carefully, and if you don't have permission, don't > get the copies. Be honest, don't lie, even though it'll get your copies made. This comes up a lot at work. The "fair use" concept seems to allow an individual to make a single copy of a copyrighted book page (map, chart, etc.) *which he/she owns,* for his/her OWN USE (not for resale or the use of others -- no multiples). Seems to me this would allow me to take my NOAA chart, which I paid $16 - $17 for, and make a single copy of it for laminating. When that copy wears out, then I'd destroy it and make another one. I would not make multiples for friends or sell the dang things. Whatcha say, Wynne? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Check the NOAA chart--I doubt there's a copyright symbol on it. Items printed by the US gov't aren't copyright, because we (meaning US citizens, I guess) would be the copyright owners. Now that I've brought it up, absence of a copyright symbol does not mean it isn't copyright. It is still someone's intellectual property. Not putting the symbol on the document and filing the paperwork with the copyright and patent office simply limits the amount of damages the owner can collect if they do succesfully prove copyright infringement. Fair use has both broad and narrow interpretations. The only people who can truly make a fair use ruling are judges/courts (where does that leave the rest of us???) The current interpretation Kinko's has to follow, because of a court order, is rather narrow, but allows the standard "educational use" stuff. Maps and artwork not part of a publication (book) don't fall under this fair use clause. Check the web site (http://kinkos.com) and see if they have the copyright page up. Their stuff explains it as they have to follow it, and as I understand it. Wynne Americus, GA USA At 09:42 PM 5/11/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Wynne Eden wrote: >> >> Kinko's will have a color copier that will copy anything up to 11x17. The >> problems are the copyright on the maps/guidebooks and the paper you're >> asking them to use. As for copyright, check with the person at the >> counter; copyright compliance is their job. If they give you a permission >> form to sign, read it carefully, and if you don't have permission, don't >> get the copies. Be honest, don't lie, even though it'll get your copies made. > >This comes up a lot at work. The "fair use" concept seems to allow an >individual to make a single copy of a copyrighted book page (map, chart, >etc.) *which he/she owns,* for his/her OWN USE (not for resale or the >use of others -- no multiples). > >Seems to me this would allow me to take my NOAA chart, which I paid $16 >- $17 for, and make a single copy of it for laminating. When that copy >wears out, then I'd destroy it and make another one. I would not make >multiples for friends or sell the dang things. > >Whatcha say, Wynne? > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> This comes up a lot at work. The "fair use" concept seems to allow an > individual to make a single copy of a copyrighted book page (map, > chart, > etc.) *which he/she owns,* for his/her OWN USE (not for resale or the > use of others -- no multiples). > > Seems to me this would allow me to take my NOAA chart, which I paid [Sisler, Clyde] I'm not sure NOAA charts are copyrighted although they may be. There are companies (http://tidesend.com/) that sell full and 2/3 size black and white copies on NOAA charts at a steep discount. The Better Boating Association sells chart kits that are shrunken reproductions of NOAA charts for whole geographical areas (Rhode Island to Canada, most of the east and west coast, Alaska and the Carrabean). If they were copyrighted, wouldn't it say so on each chart? I believe the Canadian charts, on the other hand, are copyrighted. It says so on their web site and I haven't seen any chart kits for their waters. I've been looking for kits for New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, etc for some time. Us poor people can't afford to buy an entire set of charts :-(. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Check the NOAA chart--I doubt there's a copyright symbol on it. Items printed by the US gov't aren't copyright, because we (meaning US citizens, I guess) would be the copyright owners. Now that I've brought it up, absence of a copyright symbol does not mean it isn't copyright. It is still someone's intellectual property. Not putting the symbol on the document and filing the paperwork with the copyright and patent office simply limits the amount of damages the owner can collect if they do succesfully prove copyright infringement. Fair use has both broad and narrow interpretations. The only people who can truly make a fair use ruling are judges/courts (where does that leave the rest of us???) The current interpretation Kinko's has to follow, because of a court order, is rather narrow, but allows the standard "educational use" stuff. Maps and artwork not part of a publication (book) don't fall under this fair use clause. Check the web site (http://kinkos.com) and see if they have the copyright page up. Their stuff explains it as they have to follow it, and as I understand it. Wynne Americus, GA USA At 09:42 PM 5/11/98 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Wynne Eden wrote: >> >> Kinko's will have a color copier that will copy anything up to 11x17. The >> problems are the copyright on the maps/guidebooks and the paper you're >> asking them to use. As for copyright, check with the person at the >> counter; copyright compliance is their job. If they give you a permission >> form to sign, read it carefully, and if you don't have permission, don't >> get the copies. Be honest, don't lie, even though it'll get your copies made. > >This comes up a lot at work. The "fair use" concept seems to allow an >individual to make a single copy of a copyrighted book page (map, chart, >etc.) *which he/she owns,* for his/her OWN USE (not for resale or the >use of others -- no multiples). > >Seems to me this would allow me to take my NOAA chart, which I paid $16 >- $17 for, and make a single copy of it for laminating. When that copy >wears out, then I'd destroy it and make another one. I would not make >multiples for friends or sell the dang things. > >Whatcha say, Wynne? > >-- >Dave Kruger >Astoria, OR > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Wynne Eden wrote: > > Check the NOAA chart--I doubt there's a copyright symbol on it. Items > printed by the US gov't aren't copyright, because we (meaning US citizens, > I guess) would be the copyright owners. [snip] Thanks, Wynne. You are correct. Here is the applicable language from the Kinko's site (http://www.kinkos.com/products/services/copyright-acct): > Works published by the United States Government are not copyrightable and do not > require copyright permission from the > United States Government. However, the U.S. Postal Service is an incorporated > business and is entitled to copyright > protection on postage stamp designs. I think NOAA charts are fair game. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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