>Steve Cramer wrote: >In your part of the world, I'd highly >recommend Roger Schumann at Eskape >Sea Kayaks in Santa Cruz >(408-427-2297). He's an ACA Instructor >Trainer with a ton of experience, great >skills, and a nice, supportive attitude. I agree. And he's got a new web page at www.eskapekayak.com if anyone is interested. Frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>> Tom_P_McAuliffe_at_fastmultimedia.com wrote: >> 2) What is the deal with the attitude that SOT's are not "real" kayaks? > On 9/24/98 19:12PM, Steve Cramer wrote: >I dunno.Who thinks so? I would think it's hard to do an open water crossing with a week's worth of gear strapped to the back of a sit-on-top...but then I'm primarily a whitewater paddler so I wouldn't know for sure. I do own a sit-on-top and it's the best bay/surf fishing vessel ever made! I love it, but would rather be in a closed deck if I'm offshore. Perhaps if my sit-on-top had sponsons, I'd be a little more comfortable offshore... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Neil Harrison-Houston, Texas email: nil_at_nol.net (_at_ _at_) web: www.nol.net/~nil/ ----------------------------ooO~(_)~Ooo---------------------------- 100% recycled electrons *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/24/98 1:25:09 PM EST, Tom_P_McAuliffe_at_fastmultimedia.com writes: << What is the deal with the attitude that SOT's are not "real" kayaks? I'll put the Necky Dolphin up against any kayak on the seas >> Are you testing our tolerance and goodwill? It takes a little longer to develop the skill and confidence with a decked kayak. But you are inside and in control. No need to swim every few minutes. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hi all, In a message dated 9/24/98 1:25:09 PM EST, Tom_P_McAuliffe_at_fastmultimedia.com writes: << What is the deal with the attitude that SOT's are not "real" kayaks? I'll put the Necky Dolphin up against any kayak on the seas >> In a message dated 9/25/98, Tomckayak_at_aol.com writes: <<It takes a little longer to develop the skill and confidence with a decked kayak. But you are inside and in control. No need to swim every few minutes.>> I think that it probably takes just as long or longer to develop skill and confidence with a high-end narrow surf ski, one of the fastest boats out there. I do a agree that most of the plastic SOTs are very stable and user friendly. Their performance suffers because of their stable design. Control is a problem with a SOT unless you use thigh straps. Without the straps you are subject to be bounced around. You can roll a SOT with thigh straps. There are some nice surf SOTs out there. They really carve up a wave. Those are signs of control aren't they? I don't agree with the "need to swim" statement though you may have had different experiences than I have. Here it Thailand, SOT are the boat of choice because of the heat. On the commerical front, SOT are a great way to introduce new potential paddlers to our wonderful sport. We don't have many folks falling off our boats. It does happen though. But that happens with decked boats too. I think it might even happen less often with the wide plastic SOTs because of their inherent stability. And, in a message 9/25/98, Neil Harrison writes: <<I would think it's hard to do an open water crossing with a week's worth of gear strapped to the back of a sit-on-top...but then I'm primarily a whitewater paddler so I wouldn't know for sure. I do own a sit-on-top and it's the best bay/surf fishing vessel ever made! I love it, but would rather be in a closed deck if I'm offshore.>> Neil is certainly right, SOTs do lack storage space. That is a problem with the current designs anyway. Hopefully, the future will bring us new designs with more storage room. However, if you pack it tightly and go as light as possible, there are SOTs with gear storage hatches that can be used for a week-long paddle. Ocean Kayak's Scupper is one such boat. I do island crossings all the time with a SOT. One of the virtues of SOTs is easy self-rescues. The boat doesn't fill up with water when capsized... a definite bonus if you're in the middle of a crossing! You just hop back on and the problem is solved. If I was to do a major offshore trip, I'd like to add thigh straps for control. I'd feel just as safe as I would with a decked boat. BTW, the Molokai Challenge, a surf ski race from Molokai to Oahu, is certainly open ocean. I think it all boils down to what you like to paddle. SOTs are certainly capable of doing just about anything that a decked boat can do. I'd like to hear the opinions of people who disagree with that statement. That's it for now from latitude 8. Thanks! Cheers, Dave Dave Williams, SeaCanoe Training Director Home tel: +66 76 254-514 Work tel: +66 76 212-252 Fax: +66 76 212-172 dave_at_seacanoe.com http://seacanoe.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/24/98 10:31:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dave_at_seacanoe.com writes: << I think it all boils down to what you like to paddle. SOTs are certainly capable of doing just about anything that a decked boat can do. >> Yeah, and a single speed balloon tired bicycle is capable of doing cross country trips - but I wouldn't recommend it. A few years ago we had a fellow who enjoyed SOT's join us on a trip at one of our channel islands (Southern California). He was one of the stronger, more experienced people in the group. When we came around an exposed point the currents and especially the wind was more then this fellow could handle in his rather low performance boat without a rudder and with so much of his body up in the wind. We had to hook him up and tow him until we were around the point. Everybody else in their "decked" boats did just fine. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A few Q's In a message dated 9/24/98 10:31:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dave_at_seacanoe.com writes: << I think it all boils down to what you like to paddle. SOTs are certainly capable of doing just about anything that a decked boat can do. >> KiAyker_at_aol.com sent this reply on Friday, September 25, 1998 6:58 PM <<Yeah, and a single speed balloon tired bicycle is capable of doing cross country trips - but I wouldn't recommend it. A few years ago we had a fellow who enjoyed SOT's join us on a trip at one of our channel islands (Southern California). He was one of the stronger, more experienced people in the group. When we came around an exposed point the currents and especially the wind was more then this fellow could handle in his rather low performance boat without a rudder and with so much of his body up in the wind. We had to hook him up and tow him until we were around the point. Everybody else in their "decked" boats did just fine.>> I sure can't argue with that. The average plastic SOT is a barg. Even an average decked boat should be able to go a lot faster. The problem is not that it was a SOT, the problem was the hull design. Surf skis CAN keep up with decked boats. Hopefully, better designs will be produced in the future. I've only paddled Ocean kayaks' and Aquaterra's SOTs. Are there any SOT that perform better? They don't perform (Speedwise) very well - any of them. I do wonder how much more wind resistance a SOT paddler has compared to a decked boater. There is certainly more, but is it really a factor in average winds... I don't know. Any ideas? Cheers, Dave Dave Williams, SeaCanoe Training Director Home tel: +66 76 254-514 Work tel: +66 76 212-252 Fax: +66 76 212-172 dave_at_seacanoe.com Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Dave Williams wrote: > I sure can't argue with that. The average plastic SOT is a barg. Even an > average decked boat should be able to go a lot faster. The problem is not > that it was a SOT, the problem was the hull design. Surf skis CAN keep up > with decked boats. My surf ski is significantly faster than any of my decked boats. It is also a wet ride so I only use it during warm weather. > Hopefully, better designs will be produced in the > future. I've only paddled Ocean kayaks' and Aquaterra's SOTs. Are there > any SOT that perform better? The sit on tops from Heritage (formerly hop on top) are quite nice. They are made of fiberglass and have optional thigh straps. I played with all 3 at a demo day. There are 14, 16 and 18 foot models. They have hatches and edge quite nicely. I rolled at least one of them. > I do wonder how much more wind resistance a SOT paddler has compared to a > decked boater. There is certainly more, but is it really a factor in > average winds... I don't know. Any ideas? That all depends on the windage. The Heritage sit on tops seemed to have a slightly lower profile than a decked boat. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
RE:Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:21:43 -0500 From: Jim Champoux <jim_at_sigall.com> subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A few Q's Tom wrote: SNIP... >2) What is the deal with the attitude that SOT's are not "real" kayaks?.... SNIP Welcome to paddlewise I haven't noticed the "attitude" you speak of. In fact you may find, given more time, that paddlewise is remarkably free of "attitude". jim<<< I totally agree! Which is why I became a member here and read every digest. I was more talking about on RBP and from dealer/trainers, etc.... Some training classes will not even allow SOT's... even the place a purchased it from wanted me to use a sit inside... The dolphin with a closed fore and aft is about as close a SOT can get to a sit inside. While I've yet to roll it... I'm told it can be done and I've seen it on video. Smooth seas to you, Tom SF *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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