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From: wayne steffens <wsteffen_at_skypoint.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] incident on Lake Superior
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:33:35 -0500
Apparently, a kayaker had a bit of misfortune on Lake Superior near Duluth
today. I have few details at this point. There was a small craft advisory
today, a east wind to 30 knots or more and nasty surf. All I know (from the
Coast Guard) is that he exited his boat in or near the ship canal, and got
banged up pretty bad against the jetty,  where some people helped him.
Apparently he is OK after the ambulance came and a trip to the hospital.
More as it becomes available.

Wayne
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From: Bill <bgoldmtb_at_bellsouth.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak Fun Race
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:28:53 -0400
^Hi^!

Just wanted to share with everyone that there will be a Kayak Race on
the 4th of October at Indian Key, Florida (Florida Keys, bout half way
to Key West)  More information can be had by calling Frank at Florida
Bay Outfitters at (305) 451-3018 or emailing him at:  FBOKayak_at_aol.com 
His site is www.Pennekamp.com/fbout

Just a fun race that lost of go fast semi pros go to.  Paddleing in the
back country of the Florida Keys is always fun.  The race is part of the
Indian Keys Festival that helps raise $$$ for the local organizations
around.

See Ya There!

Bill Goldstick
Big Pine Key, FL
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From: Bob Denton <gulfstream_at_flinet.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Paddle Length
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:44:33 -0400
I suspect my 240 cm Swift paddle is too long for me. I've cut it down to a
230 and may continue shortening it, so I can determine the ideal length <>
joint pains.

What length paddles to other Paddlewisenheimers use? Around here (South
Florida) the average seems to be 220cm. I am 6' and paddle a narrow boat.

Thanks for the insight.

cya

Bob Denton

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From: Mark H. Hunt <mhh_at_aretha.jax.org>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle Length
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:21:10 -0400 (EDT)
       At last count there were nine paddles hanging out in my shop all 
recieving approximately equal use though a few favorites may get used 
more. They range in length from 220 - 250 and in blade size from Little 
Dipper size to San Juan size. There are some wood, some FG and some 
graphite. Which paddle gets used on any given day is determined by the 
nature of the trip and how I am feeling. I would not settle for a single 
length or type of paddle....On a related note, I recently got to demo a 
two-shafted paddle designed by an aquaintace with wrist problems. There 
are two rotatable hand holds secured at shoulder width at right angles 
between the shafts resulting in more of a push/pull motion when used. I 
only used it about 15 minutes or so but was impressed by its efficiency
                                                    mark.
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From: Dave Williams <dave_at_seacanoe.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Paddle Length
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:41:02 +0700
Bob Denton said,
<snip>
I suspect my 240 cm Swift paddle is too long for me. I've cut it down to a
230 and may continue shortening it, so I can determine the ideal length <>
joint pains.

What length paddles to other Paddlewisenheimers use? Around here (South
Florida) the average seems to be 220cm. I am 6' and paddle a narrow boat.
<stop>

OK, I may be a bit strange, but I like a very short paddle.  I'm 6' 5" and
the paddle I use most often is a 206 cm wooden paddle.  I used to use a 240
cm paddle and developed a chronic neck pain.  The pain went away almost as
soon as I switched to a shorter paddle.  My style varies, though most of my
paddling is done with a low angled touring stroke.

On the other hand, the paddle that I switched to has a smaller blade area.
Perhaps I could use a longer paddle if it had a smaller blade area.  I
intend on buying a longer paddle to check this theory.

Cheers,
Dave


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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle Length
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:22:12 -0800
Someone asked:
> 
> <So what are you supposed to propel with a paddle 243cm long, an aircraft carrier???...

I use a 220 cm Lightning standard, more or less low-angle style, for my
single.  Anything larger/longer causes tendonitis in my wrists if I do a couple
long days in succession.

However, when I am the rear paddler in my folding double (Folbot Greenland II),
I use a 250 cm Windswift.  I need that length to slow my cadence down to that
of the front paddler.  In addition, the 250 is definitely not too much paddle
for my wrists -- I can go for days and never experience tendonitis with it --
**in a double.**

Definitely one place where YMMV.

BTW, Cooperstein's post of the formula stimulated this post.  I suspect it is
intended for use in singles only.

I am going to try out his formula on the paddles my friends like for their
singles.  They will no doubt give me a ration, but it will be fun.  Measuring
and calibrating, calibrating and measuring.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: wayne steffens <wsteffen_at_skypoint.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] incident on Lake Superior
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:21:52 -0500
The details: The man paddled through the ship canal while there were 8 foot
waves on the lake. The ship canal amplifies the waves, and the mouth is
often very confused. He capsized near the mouth of the canal, and hung onto
his boat for a while.  I'm not sure how, but he ended up outside the canal
on the lake side, and eventually was pulled from the lake after 35 minutes
in the water. He was conscious at that time, but then lost consciousness
due to hypothermia. He was treated and released. 

Its pretty obvious that this could have been avoided in several ways

1) dont go through the canal when the waves are that big
2) dont go out alone when " " " "
3) wear a drysuit-I am assuming he didnt if he was hypothermic after 30
minutes. This is not Lake Havasu
4) dont combine #1,2,3


He's a lucky guy.


Wayne


At 06:33 PM 9/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Apparently, a kayaker had a bit of misfortune on Lake Superior near Duluth
>today. I have few details at this point. There was a small craft advisory
>today, a east wind to 30 knots or more and nasty surf. All I know (from the
>Coast Guard) is that he exited his boat in or near the ship canal, and got
>banged up pretty bad against the jetty,  where some people helped him.
>Apparently he is OK after the ambulance came and a trip to the hospital.
>More as it becomes available.
>
>Wayne
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>
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From: wayne steffens <wsteffen_at_skypoint.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] incident on Lake Superior
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:12:07 -0500
 
I've been able to glean a few more pieces of info about the weekend's
Duluth incident. Apparently the paddler was not even wearing a wetsuit.
This was apparently his second time in a kayak. He actually capsized not
very far into the ship canal, wasnt intending on going all the way out, but
was swept out by the current (the canal is also an outlet of the St Louis
River). He was in a borrowed boat and as far as I know, had no kayak
training. This also is third hand info.

Last night I was out paddling with a couple friends. I turned back early
due to a headache. Wind and current in the canal were pretty strong, making
it an effort to get back in. Once I made it into the harbor the offshore
winds increased even more, and it was already getting close to dark. My
friends were nowhere in sight. I walked out to the lake side and scanned up
and down the shore for them, seeing nothing. I then drove to a beach about
1/2 mile away, thinking they may have decided to take out there and walk
back to the cars. Two people there said they had seen them paddling toward
the ship canal about 20 minutes prior, so I went back there again and still
saw nothing. By this time it was completely dark. I decided to check back
at the cars one more time. If they werent there I was going to the Coast
Guard even though I was pretty sure they were OK since the waves were not
big. Fortunately one of them was there. They had decided not to try to get
through the canal, as the winds were so strong that one paddler, a very
lightweight woman in an unloaded boat with lots of freeboard, was being
blown away from shore. So they paddled past the ship canal and landed on
the beach over there, where I never would have thought to look for them.
Anyway that ended up happily, but gave me a bit of a scare.

It did raise the question though-when is it time to call for help? I was
fairly confident that they were OK since the waves werent "capsize size",
and I knew at least one of them could roll and do assisted rescues in those
conditions. Although the winds were strong, I didnt think they would be
blown offshore (wrong) although I knew they would have trouble getting
through the canal, and I knew both were wearing drysuits. I found myself
not wanting to embarrass the hell out of them by calling help if they were
OK, but they were overdue, it was past dark, and I didnt want to wait too
long either. We never set a pre-arranged "time to start worrying", as
conditions were breezy but benign when we split up. If I had to do it
again, I would have arranged a "time to call help" before splitting up, no
matter how ridiculous it would have seemed at the time.

Wayne




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From: R. Walker <rww_at_mailbox.neosoft.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] incident on Lake Superior
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:24:56 -0500
> It did raise the question though-when is it time to call for help? I was
> fairly confident that they were OK since the waves werent "capsize size",
> and I knew at least one of them could roll and do assisted rescues in those
> conditions. Although the winds were strong, I didnt think they would be

This is a good question, and has been bugging me for a while.  Is 
the coast guard there to save lives, or to save us from spending an 
inconvenient night on the water or on some unplanned beach?   
Frankly, I don't want to be "rescued" from situations that aren't
life threatening.  If it takes me an extra day to extricate myself
from a problem, then thats the way it is, so I'll be late and a bit
hungry.  Certainly not something I want the coast guard spending
thousands of dollars to allow me to avoid.   On the other hand, if
I'm capsized or seperated from my yak 20 miles offshore, I want
to be rescued, and I'll have my strobe going blinky-blinky, to 
indicate such to the boats and rigs within eyeshot.  [Though 
I don't intend to allow THAT to ever happen in the first place...]



Richard Walker
Houston, TX
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From: Joy E. Hecht <jhecht_at_capaccess.org>
subject: [Paddlewise] Coast Guard rescues (was Re: incident on Lake Superior
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:04:03 -0400 (EDT)
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, R. Walker wrote:

> This is a good question, and has been bugging me for a while.  Is 
> the coast guard there to save lives, or to save us from spending an 
> inconvenient night on the water or on some unplanned beach?   
> Frankly, I don't want to be "rescued" from situations that aren't
> life threatening.  If it takes me an extra day to extricate myself
> from a problem, then thats the way it is, so I'll be late and a bit
> hungry.  Certainly not something I want the coast guard spending
> thousands of dollars to allow me to avoid.   On the other hand, if

(snip)

And while we're asking, who pays for Coast Guard rescues?  After they 
save your life (or prevent you from coming home late) do they send you a 
bill for thousands of dollars?  Or do our tax dollars cover this?


Joy Hecht
Arlington VA
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From: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Coast Guard rescues (was Re: incident on Lake Superior
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:21:12 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-25 15:30:15 EDT, jhecht_at_capaccess.org writes:

<< And while we're asking, who pays for Coast Guard rescues? >>

Dunno, Joy, but I have one in my logbook with the Coasties, and I didn't get a
penny out of it!  The three I got in Viet Nam with the Navy were good for
miniatures of something really cheap from the Flight Surgeon and a fifth of
very good bourbon from each of the guys I saved. If you find there's a way of
collecting on these things, Joy, lemme know --- I'll split anything I get with
you!

Joq
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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Coast Guard rescues (was Re: incident on Lake Superior
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:19:11 -0700
Joy E. Hecht wrote:
> 

> And while we're asking, who pays for Coast Guard rescues?  After they
> save your life (or prevent you from coming home late) do they send you a
> bill for thousands of dollars?  Or do our tax dollars cover this?
> 
> Joy Hecht
> Arlington VA


The Coast Guard, unlike other government agencies involved with rescues
of stranded hikers and mountain climbers, does not charge, or hasn't up
until now.  So your tax dollars pay for it.

In the one Coast Guard rescue that I did get an FOIA report on back in
1991 or 1992, I later asked for estimates of the costs involved.  It was
around $7,000 according to my Coast Guard source.  But it is really hard
to figure out since boats are on station anyway waiting for a call.  The
crew is paid anyway.  The boats are there.  The only expenditure would
be fuel but the motors are idling anyway while on station.

The big issue in the rescue that I got info on was that the paddlers
were needlessly out at night in gale force winds and had a capsize in
the group and a near hit by a tug for another of the boats.  The
situation got two Coast Guard boats pulled off station to find and take
care of the paddlers.  An opportunity cost was the real issue.  The
boats called to action could not be available for some other less
avoidable accident such as a ferry afire or a barge running astray
(neither of these things happened that night).

My big problem with kayakers acting irresponsibly and getting the Coast
Guard and other S & R people out is that resources are scarce and
thinned out anyway.  If such crews are rescuing someone in a needless
situation it takes them from places were they really may be needed.

ralph diaz
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] incident on Lake Superior
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:17:24 -0700
R. Walker wrote:
> 
> > It did raise the question though-when is it time to call for help?
> 
> This is a good question, and has been bugging me for a while.  Is
> the Coast Guard there to save lives, or to save us from spending an
> inconvenient night on the water or on some unplanned beach?
> Frankly, I don't want to be "rescued" from situations that aren't
> life threatening.  If it takes me an extra day to extricate myself
> from a problem, then thats the way it is, so I'll be late and a bit
> hungry. 

Been following this thread with some interest.  There certainly is a
temptation to Mayday the CG if you have a VHF handy.  OTOH, the same VHF
is equally useful in hitting a CG repeater to let them know you DON'T
need a rescue, and are doing fine, thank you.  In my paddling area, the
most likely reason I would not be able to get home is that I'm sitting
under a tarp comfortably warming myself by a huge fire, as a storm makes
the Bay too rough to paddle.  'Course, the folks at home don't know
that, so when darkness rolls around, they will call the CG with the info
on my float plan, and the CG will probably launch a helo to look for me
... UNLESS I've managed to tell them I'm fine.

Frankly, I bought my first VHF expressly for that purpose:  so the CG
did not needlessly launch a SAR operation.

BTW, the Canadian CG requests that paddlers file float plans with them
(which I have done a couple times), and if you fail to return, they WILL
come looking for you, after they become pretty certain you truly are
missing.  Good system, except that if you are out for a 2-week trip and
get wrecked on day 2, nobody will come looking until day 15 or
thereabouts, making for a rather broad search area.  Or, so I had
imagined, anyway, until I heard a paddler on the VHF filing a PROGRESS
REPORT to the local Can CG to update his (previously filed) float plan! 
What a great idea ... don't think the US CG has the resources to deal
with float plans down here.

Wonder what the Canadians are doing differently which allows their CG to
monitor paddlers so much better?

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: wayne steffens <wsteffen_at_skypoint.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] calling help
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:28:58 -0500
 Just to clarify the situation that brought up this (I think) good
question: When I said I wondered when to "call for help" what I really
meant was, I wondered at what point I should calmly walk into the CG
station which is about 100 yards from our launch point and 200 yds from the
ship canal, and say "My friends should probably have been back by now. I'm
not overly concerned about them at this point, they're probably fine, but
it is well past dark and if you're not doing anything more important, maybe
you could take a quick ride out and look for them". I wouldnt have called
in a frantic Mayday or anything drastic like that. But I also wouldnt have
gone home to bed without doing >something<, even though I was pretty sure
they were OK. I couldnt be sure-they could have capsized in the mouth of
the canal just before the 600 ft salty came through in the dark, or been
blown far out in the lake. I guess I'd rather be safe and embarrased than
find out later that I could have done more. Its a tough call

I agree that we dont want to sound any unnecessary alarms. What I got out
of it is to agree on something anytime a group splits up even if conditions
dont seem to warrant it at the time. 


Wayne

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From: Mark Zen <canoeist_at_netbox.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] incident on Lake Superior
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:54:52 -0600
>At 17:17 9/25/98 -0700,   Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
>Wonder what the Canadians are doing differently which allows their CG to
>monitor paddlers so much better?
>
>-- 
>Dave Kruger
>Astoria, OR

less drug interdiction? that's one of the biggest uses of coast guard 
budget, although not so much in the northwest, but south. and if the CG 
is like the US navy, they run most all their bases the same, reguardless
of location. i'm not up in the CG at all. my impression from talking with
the canadian navy, was we monitor the continent far more, and further out,
they monitor the shoreline better. although their navy's "stealth colored"
ships are pretty cool. talked with quite a few while my ship was in halifax.
so they have a close by navy, do they also have a CG, if the navy monitors
close to shore, it allow the CD to really monitor the small stuff. [my 
humble observations, i speak with no true knowlegde of their military
policies]

mark

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