In a message dated 10/16/98 10:26:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, culpeper_at_loon.norlink.net writes: > Although bag liners are terrific in the winter, I would suggest avoiding > cotton > ones. You tend to blow off a lot of moisture even if you're just happily > lying > still all night long. Moisture reduces the insulative value of the bag. > The > trick is to get the moisture to flow through the bag and out into the > atmosphere, rather than have it in your bag. Thus anything absorbant, be it > the > inner liner, the bag, or the outer liner, is not a great idea for the winter. > The other side of this spectrum is to use a vapor barrier. I personally am not a fan of the idea but I confess I have not tried it. The idea is to keep the moisture around your skin causing your body to stop producing moisture. Personally I don't think it would be a comfortable way to sleep. Anyone with practical experience care to comment? Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: > The other side of this spectrum is to use a vapor barrier. I personally am > not a fan of the idea but I confess I have not tried it. The idea is to keep > the moisture around your skin causing your body to stop producing moisture. > Personally I don't think it would be a comfortable way to sleep. I used a vapor barrier liner (VBL) for the first few nights of a snowshoe trek last year. Thanks to my polypro longjohns & low temperatures, it didn't feel clammy & it did add noticable warmth. It also protected my sleeping bag from icing up. However the darned thing was much too tight fitting & I'm a tad claustrophobic. I went bonkers just trying to worm into it. It was too tight for me to cross my hands on my chest. So much for freezing in a proper position for burial. :-) I complained to MEC & they refunded my money. I checked Campmor & found that theirs was the same width. Odd - my mummy bag isn't large but has much more space than the liner. I guess I have to make my own. -- Lloyd Bowles The Mad Canoeist "Keep the open side up!" http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have a vapor barrier liner and have used it several times with my +20 F down bag when it was very cold. It works OK to keep you warmer, but it provides a very clammy experience. So it's not very comfortable. Bijili Abbey Orangevale CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Brian Blankinship at Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: >The other side of this spectrum is to use a vapor barrier. I personally am >not a fan of the idea but I confess I have not tried it. The idea is to keep >the moisture around your skin causing your body to stop producing moisture. >Personally I don't think it would be a comfortable way to sleep. Anyone with >practical experience care to comment? I had a Stephenson Warmlite sleeping bag for many years and loved it. The innermost layer of fabric was a vapor barrier material of some kind and I thought it worked really well. I'm a hot sleeper and usually sleep in just underwear, no shirt. Mostly bare skin against the innermost sleeping bag fabric. It can be a bit sticky/clammy on warmer nights. What I did when that happened was to open the bag until I got a bit "chilly," then zipped it up and didn't have any problems after that. Sort of aclimitized myself to the situation, I guess. Whatever, it worked. The vapor barrier keeps moisture from passing on out taking heat with it so makes the bag much warmer. I hate sleeping wearing clothes because it's so restricting. Hank Hays *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Yes, they work. I personally do not like them, for it leaves me sleeping in a puddle -- a warm one, but a puddle none the less. To be resonably comfortable in a vapour liner, I find that I must wear something (polypro etc.), which I must then dry out the next day. So, yes, they work, but they are not my preference. Richard Culpeper www.geocities.com/~culpeper Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: > The other side of this spectrum is to use a vapor barrier. I personally am > not a fan of the idea but I confess I have not tried it. The idea is to keep > the moisture around your skin causing your body to stop producing moisture. > Personally I don't think it would be a comfortable way to sleep. Anyone with > practical experience care to comment? > > Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>> The other side of this spectrum is to use a vapor barrier. I personally am not a fan of the idea but I confess I have not tried it. The idea is to keep the moisture around your skin causing your body to stop producing moisture. Personally I don't think it would be a comfortable way to sleep. Anyone with practical experience care to comment? Brian Blankinship >> ************************************************************************** * I like to use a vapor barrier liner when the temperature is well below freezing. To keep my skin from sticking to the coated nylon, I wear polypro underwear inside the VBL, but nothing else. The sensation when I slip inside the VBL is one of instant humidity, somewhat like that in a bathroom after a shower, but it never gets any worse than that as long as long as I don't overheat. In other words, I feel somewhat humid inside a VBL, but not sweaty, as long as I don't get too warm. I don't find it uncomfortable, but others might. The humid sensation vanishes as soon as I slip out of the VBL in the morning, and my polypro feels dry to the touch. However, I won't wear a lot of clothes inside a VBL, out of concern that they might retain too much moisture. I once slept next to someone who wasn't using a VBL. In the morning, the outside of my bag was damp where it had touched hers, but otherwise my bag was dry. The moisture had come from her through her two bags. By using my VBL and Therm-a-rest pad, and velcroing my down parka and vest to the top of my winter bag, I have slept comfortably under the stars down to 20 below F. in a bag that was rated for 10 above F. Besides keeping my insulation dry, a VBL helps keep me from becoming dehydrated overnight. If you are otherwise well- prepared, moisture and dehydration are your biggest enemies when winter camping, not the cold. Here's another tip for winter campers: Sew or pin a square flap of fleece (such as Polartec) to the top of your winter bag that you can drape over your face if it starts to snow on you in the middle of the night. It keeps your face warm, and you can breathe through it. The first time I did this, I woke in the morning feeling cozy, threw back the flap -- and dumped half an inch of snow in my face that had accumulated overnight. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck wrote: "...I once slept next to someone who wasn't using a VBL. In the morning, the outside of my bag was damp where it had touched hers, but otherwise my bag was dry. The moisture had come from her through her two bags..." Chuck. Save energy. Use the same sleeping bag in the future. Ari (with a sleeping-bag a foot too long - just in case my next girl-friend will be a taller one?) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>>>Chuck wrote: "...I once slept next to someone who wasn't using a VBL. In the morning, the outside of my bag was damp where it had touched hers, but otherwise my bag was dry. The moisture had come from her through her two bags..." Chuck. Save energy. Use the same sleeping bag in the future. Ari (with a sleeping-bag a foot too long - just in case my next girl-friend will be a taller one?)<<<< PS: I can always pack my precious bottle of Isla Negra Red to the end of my sleeping-bag, to prevent it converting into ice ;-) Ari *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>>>Chuck wrote: "...I once slept next to someone who wasn't using a VBL. In the morning, the outside of my bag was damp where it had touched hers, but otherwise my bag was dry. The moisture had come from her through her two bags..." Chuck. Save energy. Use the same sleeping bag in the future. Ari (with a sleeping-bag a foot too long - just in case my next girl-friend will be a taller one?)<<<< PS: I can always pack my precious bottle of Isla Negra Red to the end of my sleeping-bag, to prevent it converting into ice ;-) Ari ************************************************************************** * I put my ski boots in that space, to keep them from freezing. Ari, do you know of a Finnish folk-rock group named Karelia? I attended one of their concerts in Ely, Minnesota, several years ago, and enjoyed it immensely, but I have been unable to locate any CDs by them. Chuck *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:01 17-10-98 EDT, Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: [snip] >> >The other side of this spectrum is to use a vapor barrier. I personally am >not a fan of the idea but I confess I have not tried it. The idea is to keep >the moisture around your skin causing your body to stop producing moisture. >Personally I don't think it would be a comfortable way to sleep. Anyone with >practical experience care to comment? > >Brian Blankinship i hate them. they work well. on the outward bound ski mountaineering course, we used: outer sleeping bag: 20oF rated hollow fill bag, inner sleeping bag 20oF rated down bag, then a cheap vapor barrier. the bag stayed dry, you didn't dehydrate too badly, and you woke up wet ;-( with sweat. didn't use it one night, [the nights averaged -20oF] just to see. worst night out!! the barriers work. they keep in the humid air you sweat off. after a while, you've dampened everything you are wearing. put your spare clothes outside the barrier, but in the bags, and figure out how to put them on, without freezing ;-) mark [shivering, just thinking about it!!] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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