This is an emergency call posted on behalf of Steph Dutton and Heidi Tiura, the well-known paddling/adventuring duo and gray whale advocates. A few months ago, Steph Dutton and I circulated a joint editorial about a planned gray whale hunt by the Makah whaling commission, a handful of businessmen from a Washington State Indian tribe. Steph and Heidi are presently on-site in Neah Bay, where they had hoped to offer the Makah whaling commission a non-lethal alternative to the Makah's planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month. The Makah whaling commission have refused to consider anything short of killing these whales. To make matters more complex, I have personally, in hand at this time, federal documents requested under the freedom of information act, that proove the Makah whaling commission are launching this hunt in order to commence a future trade in whale meat with Japanese and other foreign whaling countries. At this point, Steph Dutton and his operation are in desparate need of feul and supporting donations to keep them on-site to continue field efforts to prevent the hunt from occuring. This call for help is for anyone who would support Steph and Heidi in this important field exercise -- please send whatever you can to them, c/o Heidi Tiura and Steph Dutton, C/O General Delivery, Neah Bay, WA 98357. Detailed updates are available from their website at www.graywhale.net. We've exhausted all other options... field intervention is absolutely necessary. Steph and Heidi's boat Sea Dog is one of only five on-site vessels that can handle the water enough to do any good. If you oppose the new slaughter of whales in the Pacific Northwest, please do what you can to help. Michael Kundu Project SeaWolf/Arcturus Adventure Communications "The Source for Extreme Adventuresports Photojournalism" respond to ProjectSeaWolf_at_seanet.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:21 PM 10/22/98 -0700, you wrote: > To make matters more complex, I have personally, in hand at this time, >federal documents requested under the freedom of information act, that >proove the Makah whaling commission are launching this hunt in order to >commence a future trade in whale meat with Japanese and other foreign >whaling countries. Then why dont you share it with us? This directly contradicts the statements put out by the Makah. If this forum is suitable for this subject, we should be able to discuss both sides, not just yours. You are making very serious allegations, and you say you have "proof" but dont provide any. So please share it. This isnt the first time that the claim has surfaced (http://cda.net/stories/1998/May/29/S397322.asp) from Sea Shepherd, without proof. >Steph and Heidi are presently on-site in Neah Bay, where they had hoped to >offer the Makah whaling commission a non-lethal alternative to the Makah's >planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month. Dont you feel just a little bit guilty about this misleading statement? The Makah do not have a "planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month". In fact they are allowed UP TO 5 whales a year, but only twenty over a 5 year period. That averages out to 4 per year MAXIMUM. And nowhere have I seen anything that indicates that they intend to take the maximum quota. And even if they do, that hardly qualifies as "slaughter". The Makah whaling >commission have refused to consider anything short of killing these whales. Would you prefer they eat them alive? > >At this point, Steph Dutton and his operation are in desparate need of feul >and supporting donations to keep them on-site to continue field efforts to >prevent the hunt from occuring. I could make a number of helpful and patronizing suggestions as to how Steph could run his life better and avoid the cultural strife these fuel shortages are causing him-isnt that the same thing he is trying to do to the Makah? > >This call for help is for anyone who would support Steph and Heidi in this >important field exercise -- please send whatever you can to them, c/o Heidi >Tiura and Steph Dutton, C/O General Delivery, Neah Bay, WA 98357. Detailed >updates are available from their website at www.graywhale.net. > >We've exhausted all other options... field intervention is absolutely >necessary. Steph and Heidi's boat Sea Dog is one of only five on-site >vessels that can handle the water enough to do any good. If you oppose the >new slaughter of whales in the Pacific Northwest, please do what you can to >help. And dont forget to get both sides of the story and the facts before doing so. http://www.makah.com/whales.htm The facts: 1)The Makah will kill a few whales. There is no "slaughter" planned, 2)there is no plan to sell whale meat overseas (or prove that there is), it is illegal to do so 3)Some people who probably buy their dead meat in a store dont like the Makah exercising their treaty rights to kill their own meat 4)The hunt is not being done in a way that will affect whale populations so... 5)It really isnt a conservation issue, it's an animal rights issue. Thats fine but as such I dont think it belongs on Paddlewise. Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I am surprised at the uproar over 20 animals over a 5 year time frame.. Given the 20,000 estimated numbers for this species the number is rather insignificant and the impact on banning whaling on the Makah culture is so much more potentially damaging. We need to understand that ours is not the only culture that has value and worth. Something greater needs to be called on, not this call for action based solely on the emotional impact of visualizing the slaughter of innocent animals. All food animals are slaughtered and who are we to tell another culture that they can't eat an abundant food animal? As for the complexity of the issue, show me the "official" document or better yet have it verified and release it to the press. They are rabid whale huggers also. Please don't misunderstand me, I love the sight of whales and I wouldn't want to eat whale meat, however, I also love the sight of a flock of geese in flight and do still enjoy eating wild goose. Remember only people inherently have rights. Animals only have the rights that people assign them (cruel sounding but reality). Having Much Too Much Fun, Will Sahli -----Original Message----- From: wayne steffens [mailto:wsteffen_at_skypoint.com] Sent: Saturday, October 24, 1998 7:47 PM To: Michael Kundu Cc: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Message from Steph Dutton & Michael Kundu.... At 07:21 PM 10/22/98 -0700, you wrote: > To make matters more complex, I have personally, in hand at this time, >federal documents requested under the freedom of information act, that >proove the Makah whaling commission are launching this hunt in order to >commence a future trade in whale meat with Japanese and other foreign >whaling countries. Then why dont you share it with us? This directly contradicts the statements put out by the Makah. If this forum is suitable for this subject, we should be able to discuss both sides, not just yours. You are making very serious allegations, and you say you have "proof" but dont provide any. So please share it. This isnt the first time that the claim has surfaced (http://cda.net/stories/1998/May/29/S397322.asp) from Sea Shepherd, without proof. >Steph and Heidi are presently on-site in Neah Bay, where they had hoped to >offer the Makah whaling commission a non-lethal alternative to the Makah's >planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month. Dont you feel just a little bit guilty about this misleading statement? The Makah do not have a "planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month". In fact they are allowed UP TO 5 whales a year, but only twenty over a 5 year period. That averages out to 4 per year MAXIMUM. And nowhere have I seen anything that indicates that they intend to take the maximum quota. And even if they do, that hardly qualifies as "slaughter". The Makah whaling >commission have refused to consider anything short of killing these whales. Would you prefer they eat them alive? > >At this point, Steph Dutton and his operation are in desparate need of feul >and supporting donations to keep them on-site to continue field efforts to >prevent the hunt from occuring. I could make a number of helpful and patronizing suggestions as to how Steph could run his life better and avoid the cultural strife these fuel shortages are causing him-isnt that the same thing he is trying to do to the Makah? > >This call for help is for anyone who would support Steph and Heidi in this >important field exercise -- please send whatever you can to them, c/o Heidi >Tiura and Steph Dutton, C/O General Delivery, Neah Bay, WA 98357. Detailed >updates are available from their website at www.graywhale.net. > >We've exhausted all other options... field intervention is absolutely >necessary. Steph and Heidi's boat Sea Dog is one of only five on-site >vessels that can handle the water enough to do any good. If you oppose the >new slaughter of whales in the Pacific Northwest, please do what you can to >help. And dont forget to get both sides of the story and the facts before doing so. http://www.makah.com/whales.htm The facts: 1)The Makah will kill a few whales. There is no "slaughter" planned, 2)there is no plan to sell whale meat overseas (or prove that there is), it is illegal to do so 3)Some people who probably buy their dead meat in a store dont like the Makah exercising their treaty rights to kill their own meat 4)The hunt is not being done in a way that will affect whale populations so... 5)It really isnt a conservation issue, it's an animal rights issue. Thats fine but as such I dont think it belongs on Paddlewise. Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Do people have inherent rights or are they just the rights that other people assign them. The US founding fathers were quite willing to differentiate the rights of different peoples. If we now acknowledge that all people really are created equal, why should we differentiate with animals? If we feel it is morally correct to give other people rights why is it not correct to also give other animals rights. BTW, How do you determine when a right is inherent or not. >Remember only people inherently have rights. Animals only have the rights >that people assign them (cruel sounding but reality). Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 10 Ash Swamp Rd Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ >>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
1. I'm a vegetarian. Comparing whales to cows as food animals is not relevant to me. 2. You'd have better luck persuading me if the folks preserving their culture did so without the 50 caliber rifle. 3. With only 20k whales in the species, 20 taken over 5 years is very significant. Richard Culpeper www.geocities.com/~culpeper ---------- > From: wmsahli_at_interaccess.com > To: Michael Kundu <projectseawolf_at_seanet.com> > Cc: Paddlewise (E-mail) <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Message from Steph Dutton & Michael Kundu.... > Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 9:40 AM > > I am surprised at the uproar over 20 animals over a 5 year time frame.. > Given the 20,000 estimated numbers for this species the number is rather > insignificant and the impact on banning whaling on the Makah culture is so > much more potentially damaging. We need to understand that ours is not the > only culture that has value and worth. Something greater needs to be called > on, not this call for action based solely on the emotional impact of > visualizing the slaughter of innocent animals. All food animals are > slaughtered and who are we to tell another culture that they can't eat an > abundant food animal? > > As for the complexity of the issue, show me the "official" document or > better yet have it verified and release it to the press. They are rabid > whale huggers also. > > Please don't misunderstand me, I love the sight of whales and I wouldn't > want to eat whale meat, however, I also love the sight of a flock of geese > in flight and do still enjoy eating wild goose. > > Remember only people inherently have rights. Animals only have the rights > that people assign them (cruel sounding but reality). > > Having Much Too Much Fun, > > Will Sahli > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wayne steffens [mailto:wsteffen_at_skypoint.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 1998 7:47 PM > To: Michael Kundu > Cc: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Message from Steph Dutton & Michael Kundu.... > > At 07:21 PM 10/22/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > > To make matters more complex, I have personally, in hand at this time, > >federal documents requested under the freedom of information act, that > >proove the Makah whaling commission are launching this hunt in order to > >commence a future trade in whale meat with Japanese and other foreign > >whaling countries. > > Then why dont you share it with us? This directly contradicts the > statements put out by the Makah. If this forum is suitable for this > subject, we should be able to discuss both sides, not just yours. You are > making very serious allegations, and you say you have "proof" but dont > provide any. So please share it. This isnt the first time that the claim > has surfaced (http://cda.net/stories/1998/May/29/S397322.asp) from Sea > Shepherd, without proof. > > > >Steph and Heidi are presently on-site in Neah Bay, where they had hoped to > >offer the Makah whaling commission a non-lethal alternative to the Makah's > >planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month. > > Dont you feel just a little bit guilty about this misleading statement? The > Makah do not have a "planned slaughter of 5 gray whales this month". In > fact they are allowed UP TO 5 whales a year, but only twenty over a 5 year > period. That averages out to 4 per year MAXIMUM. And nowhere have I seen > anything that indicates that they intend to take the maximum quota. And > even if they do, that hardly qualifies as "slaughter". > > > The Makah whaling > >commission have refused to consider anything short of killing these whales. > > Would you prefer they eat them alive? > > > > > >At this point, Steph Dutton and his operation are in desparate need of feul > >and supporting donations to keep them on-site to continue field efforts to > >prevent the hunt from occuring. > > I could make a number of helpful and patronizing suggestions as to how > Steph could run his life better and avoid the cultural strife these fuel > shortages are causing him-isnt that the same thing he is trying to do to > the Makah? > > > > >This call for help is for anyone who would support Steph and Heidi in this > >important field exercise -- please send whatever you can to them, c/o Heidi > >Tiura and Steph Dutton, C/O General Delivery, Neah Bay, WA 98357. Detailed > >updates are available from their website at www.graywhale.net. > > > >We've exhausted all other options... field intervention is absolutely > >necessary. Steph and Heidi's boat Sea Dog is one of only five on-site > >vessels that can handle the water enough to do any good. If you oppose the > >new slaughter of whales in the Pacific Northwest, please do what you can to > >help. > > And dont forget to get both sides of the story and the facts before doing > so. > http://www.makah.com/whales.htm > > The facts: > > 1)The Makah will kill a few whales. There is no "slaughter" planned, > 2)there is no plan to sell whale meat overseas (or prove that there is), it > is illegal to do so > 3)Some people who probably buy their dead meat in a store dont like the > Makah exercising their treaty rights to kill their own meat > 4)The hunt is not being done in a way that will affect whale populations > so... > 5)It really isnt a conservation issue, it's an animal rights issue. Thats > fine but as such I dont think it belongs on Paddlewise. > > > Wayne > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
[this will be my only messages on the Makah whaling thread..] > 2. You'd have better luck persuading me if the folks preserving > their culture did so without the 50 caliber rifle. That rifle, as obnoxious as it sounds, is the appropriate weapon to insure that there are no lost woundeds. A harpooned whale is virtually guaranteed to die; what is not guaranteed is the recovery and appropriate use of the animal's carcass. > 3. With only 20k whales in the species, 20 taken over 5 years is very > significant. >From what I know of wildlife management, 20k individuals, and an extremely limited annual take is perfectly reasonable. Compared with all the other hunted mammals in North America, it seems very conservative. Now traditionally, one would auction off tags and then use the proceeds to enhance habitat, but I don't know how that model could work with whales... Sure would be a good way to suck money out of folks who say they want whales protected, but don't ever get their checkbooks out. Every year, auction 4 new tags, plus any that were not filled from previous years... Course, whale management is so tied up in emotionalistic nonsense that it is hard to have a reasoned discussion about sustainable yield in whale populations and how to issue tags and use the moneys collected in that manner. In order to avoid protracted list-abuse, I will allow the anti-whaling folks to have the last word... Richard Walker Houston, TX http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:52 PDT