I am thinking about replacing my Coaster with another Mariner boat, either the Max or the Express. I have paddled both of these boats but only in calm, windless water so I'm not really familiar with the handling qualities of either except to note that they can easily be rolled up on their sides and held there making leaned turns very effective. The boats I paddled had sliding seats which added about six pounds. Weight is an important consideration; I regard any boat over 50# as "heavy". I wonder if the sliding seat is really needed. I weigh about 155#, almost all of my paddling is daytripping; I dislike boats that weathercock; I would much prefer something that is less edgy in a steep following sea than my Arctic Hawk; I would rather avoid a rudder [otherwise I would probably buy a Solstice GTS]. There are no dealers for Mariner kayaks and these boats are uncommon in my part of the world [New Jersey] so any kind of feedback would be a big help. JOHN *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>I am thinking about replacing my Coaster with another Mariner boat, either the Max or the Express. I have paddled both of these boats but only in calm, windless water so I'm not really familiar with the handling qualities of either except to note that they can easily be rolled up on their sides and held there making leaned turns very effective. The boats I paddled had sliding seats which added about six pounds. Weight is an important consideration; I regard any boat over 50# as "heavy". I wonder if the sliding seat is really needed. > I weigh about 155#, almost all of my paddling is daytripping; I dislike boats that weathercock; I would much prefer something that is less edgy in a steep following sea than my Arctic Hawk; I would rather avoid a rudder [otherwise I would probably buy a Solstice GTS].> John I have the Express with the sliding seat and paddle it unloaded 98% of the time. This boat is easy to turn and relatively immune to weathercocking, even unloaded, even with the seat in a neutral position. Still, when the wind gets strong, or you are surfing, the ability to further trim using the seat is wonderfully effective. This trimmability saves far more effort in rough conditions than you lose in added weight. In flat water or light wind it doesn't matter where the seat is. The trouble is the seat is not very comfortable. The back simply must be cut down. It is so high that you cannot lean back at all. Impossible to do a smooth screw roll because the seat back stops you cold, although a C-to-C is OK. I greatly admire the Brozes and their design philosophy, but their seat is awful for comfort. However comfort is in the butt of the beholder. I am also thinking of another Mariner boat. Since consistency is not one of my traits, I am thinking of getting a fixed foam seat. I would like to get a light layup and it bothers me aesthetically to add those extra 6 or 7 lbs. Also the fixed seat would allow the front bulkhead to be closer to your feet minimizing flooded area. Can't decide. I hate giving up the added control of the sliding seat. I am also leaning toward the older XL, rather than the MAX. From what I understand, the MAX is not an improvement over the XL, it is just different. Turns easier but doesn't track as well. For travelling I prefer tracking. For turning, i.e., playing, I have the Express which I don't intend ever to part with. I also like the Mariner II which I did demo in turbulent water and liked very much. But I think that the XL might be better for carrying stuff and fishing. At my typical cruising speed of 4 knots I think that the XL or MAX might be just as efficient as the II. But I don't know. Jerry Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/10/98 0:57:14 AM EST, klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net writes: >I am also leaning toward the older XL, rather than the MAX. From what I understand, the MAX is not an improvement over the XL, it is just different.< I paddled the Mariner XL for four years before I switched (five years ago) to the MAX . The MAX is different and an improvement. Its like comparing any two kayak designs there are plus's and minus's. The borse bothers redesigned the XL's stern and bow to create the MAX and considered it a replacement for the XL. The story I heard is that the XL was designed for a large east coast Canoe manufacture, to their spec.'s, then the deal fell throw. I recently I paddled the MAX and an Express in the surf (4-5FT) on the same day. The express being shorter and narrower maneuver on the wave face better. The MAX punched out though the break batter was more stabile landing on the back side of the wave. The one surprise I found was that the MAX could swing around on the flat water between waves quicker then the Express. Put the MAX on its side and the bow and stern are free to turn. The express has a straighter side profile. << >I am thinking about replacing my Coaster with another Mariner boat, either the Max or the Express >> Both Mariner boat are good I would pick the boat that fits your size and gear carrying requirements. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>I paddled the Mariner XL for four years before I switched (five years ago) to >the MAX . The MAX is different and an improvement. Its like comparing any two >kayak designs there are plus's and minus's. The borse bothers redesigned the >XL's stern and bow to create the MAX and considered it a replacement for the >XL. Could you be specific about the plus's and minus's? You are the only one I know who has extensive experience with both MAX and XL. Are there any ways in which the XL is better than the MAX? Or is the MAX an improvement in every way? In particular, I am interested in ease of direction holding over long distance travelling downweather. For instance, I find that the Express requires a bit more of proactive direction holding in these conditions than I would like, even with the seat moved back. Slightly stiffer tracking would be preferable to me, in this application, even at the expense of less maneuverability. (I don't think that tracking in cross winds is an issue with any Mariner boat with a sliding seat.) Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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