hi, today i made a classic error and took two paddle sections from look alike paddles to the boat ramp... with different diameter shafts, they don't join.. oh well. one of the guys had a spare wing paddle which i used... lots of fun.. the group had one olympic kayak, one olympic high kneel canoe, one jensen 201(?) canoe and me in my year old artic hawk. i could barely keep pace with the group.. only because they weren't really paddling hard and my pulse rate was running in the 170's. anyway, after about a mile i blew out a footpeg. i went ashore and reattached it and saw that the problem was that the plastic slide rail has fatigued with use and the slot is wider than normal at my normal position. so when i put a extra pressure on it, the footpeg blows out! happened twice today. how can one fix a blown footpeg problem? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:22 PM 1/23/99 -0500, Larry Bliven wrote: >how can one fix a blown footpeg problem? Sounds like a good excuse for a new boat to me.... And maybe a new paddle, too! <GRIN> Hank Hays What's that company name again?????? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Bliven >how can one fix a blown footpeg problem? > Wilderness System and Dagger have apparantly manufactured some of their own footpegs modeled after the Perception "keepers". They don't seem to have 1)as close of tolerance, 2)as rigid of polymer. When you really lean on them they spread the rail(the sliding rail which permits back and forth adjustments)and out pops the peg. You could try to replace them with original "keepers" or better still replace the whole thing with Yakima aluminum rails and pegs. FWIW Dennis >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> You could try to replace them with original "keepers" or better still > replace the whole thing with Yakima aluminum rails and pegs. Another option, an the one that I prefer, is to remove the foot pegs and use foam against the bulkhead to pad the bulkhead out to a comfortable foot bracing position. It's easy to do and is very comfortable. It also allows for less water in the cockpit area when a capsize occurs. On the negative side, it's not easily adjustable, so it's difficult for others to paddle my boat. When I purchased my last boat, I had the dealer not drill the foot peg holes, so there was nothing to plug up. I've heard of some who are special ordering their boats to have the bulkhead placed at just the right point for their leg length. Greg Hollingsworth *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I also have an arctic hawk and have had the same problem. I changed my footpeg location this year and temporally postponed the problem but plan on installing aluminum footbraces this spring. Northwest Design Works (available from NOC) as well as Yakima make aluminum footbraces. frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> I changed my > footpeg location this year and temporally postponed the problem but plan on > installing aluminum footbraces this spring. Northwest Design Works > (available from NOC) as well as Yakima make aluminum footbraces. Hmmm. A couple of days ago, Ralph was advising keeping your tent poles with aluminium ferrules in a waterproof bag to prevent corrosion from sea water and sea air. Now folks are putting aluminum footpeg rails in. Actually, I think prijon boats come with them. I don't know much about aluminum, but is there an inconsistency here? Steve Cramer Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote: > > > I changed my > > footpeg location this year and temporally postponed the problem but plan on > > installing aluminum footbraces this spring. Northwest Design Works > > (available from NOC) as well as Yakima make aluminum footbraces. > > Hmmm. A couple of days ago, Ralph was advising keeping your tent poles > with aluminium ferrules in a waterproof bag to prevent corrosion from sea > water and sea air. Now folks are putting aluminum footpeg rails in. > Actually, I think prijon boats come with them. I don't know much about > aluminum, but is there an inconsistency here? I was a bit confused by Ralph's posting myself, experience having shown me that aluminum ususally oxidises to a certain point and stops- in normal conditions that is. In fact anodizing is an electical process which accelerates and intensifies the oxidation process to a deeper level (a few microns), protecting the metal with a very hard aluminum oxide surface(the substance often used for sandpaper) usually impervious to further degeneration. However, if aluminum is in contact with a dissimilar metal, steel, copper or brass, and immersed in a saline solution, this will cause a similar electrolytic reaction as anodizing and corrode the aluminum to complete disinigration (if applied long enough) which I suspect could be fairly quick on a thin walled aluminum tube tent pole. I would believe this could happen quickly with steel flanges or locks on the poles. I havn't any personal experience with ocean water and aluminum, so I hesitate making any truly authoritive remarks. I have replaced my footpegs with aluminum ones I have machined myself (extending them for my abnormally long appendeges), and hope they don't fatigue at an inoppurtune time... If anyone is interested in more research on this, I will ask on a very informative metalworking newsgroup. gabriel l romeu http://members.aol.com/romeug studio furniture http://members.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photos, prints, etc. http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR a daily photo journal *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:16 AM 1/24/99 -0500, you wrote: >However, if aluminum is in contact with a dissimilar metal, steel, >copper or brass, and immersed in a saline solution, this will cause a >similar electrolytic reaction as anodizing and corrode the aluminum to >complete disinigration (if applied long enough) which I suspect could be >fairly quick on a thin walled aluminum tube tent pole. I would believe >this could happen quickly with steel flanges or locks on the poles. >I havn't any personal experience with ocean water and aluminum, so I >hesitate making any truly authoritive remarks. I have replaced my >footpegs with aluminum ones I have machined myself (extending them for >my abnormally long appendeges), and hope they don't fatigue at an >inoppurtune time... I have in fact experienced the corrosion/electrolysis effect with my footpegs that others were speculating about. The original footpegs that came with my boat were made with a small piece of aluminum flat stock that ran within the plastic rail, attached with stainless steel screws to a bent "L" shaped piece of aluminum flat stock which was the footpeg proper. After about eight years of quite regular use, the area of aluminum immediately around the stainless steel screwheads corroded to the point where they pulled through. Fortunately, this happened just as I was embarking for the morning, and not as I was bearing down on the peg while surfing a wave or such like. Equally fortunately, my boat is well designed enough that it does not need a rudder to track. I simply pulled the rudder out of the water, used some washers from my repair kit to hold the peg and the sliding part together (the washer meant they could no longer slide in the rail, so they were "static" footpegs) and completed the remaining four days of the trip without incident. I did not make a warranty claim on this, since I think my use level borders on the professional/rental type. I simply bought another company's aftermarket system, drilled replacement holes in the new rails to match the existing through-hull holes in my boat. The new pegs are welded rather than screwed, and the adjustment system is a slider located sensibly at about thigh distance for easy tightening and slackening while underway (the previous system had awkward levers located on the far side of the peg—great on the beach, clumsy at sea.) Two years old and going strong! Cheers, Philip T. N49°16' W123°08' "The opinions expressed in this posting are not necessarily those of my employer, or indeed, of any sentient being." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote: > Hmmm. A couple of days ago, Ralph was advising keeping your tent poles > with aluminium ferrules in a waterproof bag to prevent corrosion from sea > water and sea air. Now folks are putting aluminum footpeg rails in. > Actually, I think prijon boats come with them. I don't know much about > aluminum, but is there an inconsistency here? I don't think that there is an inconsistency. The tolerances are much tighter for tent pole ferrules. Even a small bit of corrosion can adversely affect their performance. My aluminum foot peg rails have some corrosion, but not enough to affect their performance. I suppose that given enough time this could become a problem, and thus they might at some point require replacement. In the meantime I can apply a lot of pressure without worrying about them blowing out (unlike the plastic rails). Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Didn't know wether anyone was interested, but: > >gabriel l romeu > You ask > > >Outside of an > >electrolytic reaction with a disimilar metal, what other corrosive > >properties is aluminum subjected to in sea water? > > I'm no "authority" on corrosion, but I assisted another engineer a couple of > years ago with a sea water corrosion test for the Navy. > One reaction (other than the obvious dissimilkar metal contact 'erosion') was > the corrosion on the aluminum due to its 'impurities'. The aluminum will grow > spots where the appropriat elements within the alloy will make their own little > dissimilar metal -- electrolytic action. > We were evaluating aluminum and stainless steel junctions. > > Jerry This seems very logical to me. The 6061 I use is an alloy of aluminum, magnesium, silicone and a bit of copper I believe. Probably wise to lacquer coat my pegs. > > Aluminum alloys have an oxide on their surfaces.This is a rusting effect that > provents > the al. from rusting further. Salt in sea water > attacks and strips this oxide off,allowing further oxidation. > Painting,anodizing even chemical coating will help slow it down. Al.allot 5083 > is > a marine alloy designed for its use in sea water.If you can make them out of > this alloy. > Hope this helps. > Frank Thanks to the good people of the metalworking newsgroup. -- gabriel l romeu http://members.aol.com/romeug studio furniture http://members.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photos, prints, etc. http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR a daily photo journal *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
OK, gearheads, here's something else to jabber about: I recently decided that I needed to break down and get a new sleeping bag for kayaking; the old one I backpacked and car camped with for years has seen too many better days. I'm undecided over whether to get a high-end synthetic bag, or a down bag. I know down goes away and hides when it gets wet, but it packs so much tighter than synthetic that it should be able to live in a drybag that will still go down the hatch of the boat. On the other hand, a high-end bag out of something like Quallofill will stay warm to some degree if it gets wet, and will dry more easily than down, but a Quallofill bag will take a huge drybag, and that drybag will be a bear in a small hatch. The issue is nicely balanced in my own mind, but does anyone else have any ideas? -- Wes Boyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: > I recently decided that I needed to break down and get a new sleeping > bag for kayaking; [snip] > > I'm undecided over whether to get a high-end synthetic bag, or a down > bag. I know down goes away and hides when it gets wet, but it packs so > much tighter than synthetic that it should be able to live in a drybag > that will still go down the hatch of the boat. > > On the other hand, a high-end bag out of something like Quallofill will > stay warm to some degree if it gets wet, and will dry more easily than > down, but a Quallofill bag will take a huge drybag, and that drybag will > be a bear in a small hatch. If stuffed (in its own nylon bag) into the bottom (but to one side) of a conventional drybag, you can get pretty good "compression" by stuffing other clothing items (etc.) to the other side of the sleeping bag, and on top of it. The friction of the other goodies will hold the "compression" pretty well. That said, a Quallofill (or similar) bag good to 20 F will still be pretty bulky. Unless your trips include way-under-freezing conditions, I bet most adult males will be comfy in a "35 F" synthetic bag, which is not bulky at all. That has served me well here, with the occasional winter trip thrown in. Others will disagree, but I would never trust a down bag in a marine environment. Aside from the chance of a leak when it's in the yak, there are just too many other ways for it to get wet when camping in wet, temperate climates, sometimes barely above tidewater. I think everyone I know who has paddled multi-day trips for more than 2 - 3 years out here on the West Coast has had his/her gear get thoroughly soaked, one time or another. Then, you're screwed. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I use a NorthFace Cats Meow. It is Hollofill II (now replaced by Hollofill 3D). It does not pack down quite as small as a down bag but it comes within 20% and fits into the rear hatch easily. I use a trash sack inside a water resistant compression bag. The compression bag gets it down to a small package a lot easier than trying to cram it into a small stuff sack. I like the extra security of knowing that even if it gets wet, it will keep me warm. It hasn't gotten soaked, but the peace of mind is still there. On an extended trip in cool/cold weather the quicker drying of the synthetic keeps the bag from accumulating water. A bag gets moisture from breathing and perspiration, a synthetic can be left in the sun for a couple of hours every couple of days and will lose most of this moisture, a down bag will not. One thing I see frequently that applies to both down and synthetic bags. People with -20F bags who won't go out when it gets below 50F. The ratings are a guide of course, and some people need a colder rating to sleep comfortable. But too much bag: costs more, weighs more, doesn't pack as small, and IMO is a waste. At 08:05 PM 1/24/99 -0800, Wes Boyd wrote: >OK, gearheads, here's something else to jabber about: > >I recently decided that I needed to break down and get a new sleeping >bag for kayaking; the old one I backpacked and car camped with for >years has seen too many better days. > >I'm undecided over whether to get a high-end synthetic bag, or a down >bag. I know down goes away and hides when it gets wet, but it packs so >much tighter than synthetic that it should be able to live in a drybag >that will still go down the hatch of the boat. > >On the other hand, a high-end bag out of something like Quallofill will >stay warm to some degree if it gets wet, and will dry more easily than >down, but a Quallofill bag will take a huge drybag, and that drybag will >be a bear in a small hatch. > >The issue is nicely balanced in my own mind, but does anyone else have >any ideas? > >-- Wes Boyd >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
All this talk of metals and saltwater and corrosion causes me to wonder what the metallic frames of folding kayaks are made of , and how do they defeat the corrosion problem? ??? - Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Speaking of folding kayaks, how about breakdown paddles. I noticed something looks like rust on one of the "buttons" that holds the shaft to the blade on my AquaBound paddles. What should I do for it??? Karen :-) DANJW_at_aol.com wrote: > > All this talk of metals and saltwater and corrosion causes me to wonder what > the metallic frames of folding kayaks are made of , and how do they defeat the > corrosion problem? ??? - Dan > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
DANJW_at_aol.com wrote: > > All this talk of metals and saltwater and corrosion causes me to wonder what > the metallic frames of folding kayaks are made of , and how do they defeat the > corrosion problem? I hope someone with more metallurgical knowledge that I have will pipe up on this. Feathercraft uses two different types of aluminum. The K-Light uses 6063-T832 extruded aluminum/magnesium whereas its bigger brothers use a heftier 6061-T6 aluminum/magnesium. In both cases they are heavily anodized against corrosion. The last I talked to them about it, they had it anodized in the US even though they have plenty of aluminum up in Canada. It may be price or it may be quality but knowing Feathercraft's high standards, I would suspect the latter as they go out of their way to source their hypalon from France some 7 thousand miles away from them rather than source in the US or Canada. I don't know what Folbot uses in its aluminum but it is anodized. The frames do seem to hold up well though. Early on in the Greenland 2 model back in 1989 or so, there was a simple aluminum part (I think that plate at the front of the cockpit) that they did not watch what aluminum they used and it corroded badly. So Folbot is careful that everything is now marine grade. However, despite these precautions and good materials, you do get corrosion in the frames. That is part of the reason why you should not leave aluminum frame boats assembled more than x months, a good bet is to say x is 3. This is especially true in the male/female joining points. These connections can fuse or seize up; part of the problem is just guck and part of the problem is corrosion. Feathercrafts have much closer tolerances in their male/female connections and so are somewhat more prone than Folbots, but only by a margin. And it depends on what connections one is talking about and which boats. The K-Lights can fuse at the four sliders that connect gunwale and chine bars at the middle of the boat. The sliders in the assembled position are pressed outward and not in a straight line and that kind of contact can be quick to fuse. Those connections should be lubricated religiously and checked every month or so and most certainly diassembled after 3 months. On the other Feathercrafts, the extension bars may corrode and should be watched. There isn't anything that doesn't suffer in a marine environment. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > DANJW_at_aol.com wrote: > > > > All this talk of metals and saltwater and corrosion causes me to wonder what > > the metallic frames of folding kayaks are made of , and how do they defeat the > > corrosion problem? > > I hope someone with more metallurgical knowledge that I have will pipe > up on this. Feathercraft uses two different types of aluminum. The > K-Light uses 6063-T832 extruded aluminum/magnesium whereas its bigger > brothers use a heftier 6061-T6 aluminum/magnesium. additional information (though probably useless), the 6000 series aluminum is an alloy of magnesium and silicon, attributes being good formability (not stringy on cutters and stuff), tempering (hardening) ability and good resistance to corrosion. the last two digits indicate the percentage in hundreths +99%- 99.(60)63% or 99.(60)61% aluminum, rest ('cept for trace impurities) magnesium silicate. The 2000 series uses copper and is subject to intergranular corrosion. Totally innappropriate for marine use. The alloy generally used for marine application is a strictly magnesium alloy, the 5000 series. This alloy can develop stress corrosion in operating temperatures over 150 degrees farenheit (due to the higher magnesium content). Might not be the thing for hot garage storage. It is not heat treatable, and care must be taken in cold work. Probably the 606x series was a good all around material. The anodizing, especially if it is a deep anodize (done in a cool bath, a hard thing to maintain in electrolysis), should help protect it. I know many people who anodize and also wax the pieces for additional protection, but these wern't being used in a marine enviroment. The t designation is for the hardening process, t6 is heat treated(temper) and artificially aged, the 832 is heat treated, cold worked, and artificially aged. sorry if this was not applicable. -- Gabriel L Romeu http://users.aol.com/romeug -------> furniture http://users.aol.com/romeugp ---> paintings, prints, photos + stuff http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR --> a daily journal of observations *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > DANJW_at_aol.com wrote: > > > > All this talk of metals and saltwater and corrosion causes me to wonder what > > the metallic frames of folding kayaks are made of , and how do they defeat the > > corrosion problem? > > I hope someone with more metallurgical knowledge that I have will pipe > up on this. Feathercraft uses two different types of aluminum. The > K-Light uses 6063-T832 extruded aluminum/magnesium whereas its bigger > brothers use a heftier 6061-T6 aluminum/magnesium. In both cases they > are heavily anodized against corrosion. The last I talked to them about > it, they had it anodized in the US even though they have plenty of > aluminum up in Canada. It may be price or it may be quality but knowing > Feathercraft's high standards, I would suspect the latter as they go out > of their way to source their hypalon from France some 7 thousand miles > away from them rather than source in the US or Canada. > > I don't know what Folbot uses in its aluminum but it is anodized. The > frames do seem to hold up well though. [big snip] > There isn't anything that doesn't suffer in a marine environment. I've kept my mouth shut during most of this corrosion discussion because I know I'm definitely not Ralph's desired expert. Maybe the best contribution I can make is that almost every statement I've read so far should be followed with the rejoinder ... "Well, that's generally true, but it also depends on [fill in the blank]." Maybe a story will help explain. Out here, they make gill net boats (for saltwater service) out of one of the 5000-series aluminum alloys (don't know which one), so I scurried off to my buddy who makes those boats when I wanted a chunk of corrosion-resistant aluminum to make a skookum rudder horn for my Folbot. Much to my surprise, if the horn is left, wet, in contact with the seemingly-cheesy Folbot aluminum castings, it erodes badly at the contact, and the castings *don't* corrode. Why? I don't know. I could speculate about it, but the value of the speculation would be exactly equal to what the readers of this list paid for it. The gill net boats hold up well in marine service (years and years). Go figure. There's only one feature of Ralph's dissertation I'd like to play with: anodizing. Good idea for the protection it provides for the anodized surfaces. **Maybe** not so good an idea if the aluminum is riveted, bolted, screwed, or attached in some other way to a different metal. Here's why: the anodizing prevents corrosion on the bulk of the aluminum, but at the contact with dissimilar metal, there *may* be *accelerated* corrosion, owing to the innate tendency of the dissimilar metals to form a galvanic couple. If the corrosive effect of the galvanic couple is concentrated at the fastener, it is possible that the fasteners will corrode the aluminum (or, vice versa), and ... boom! ... the fastened joints give way. OTOH, if the aluminum part is **not** anodized, the galvanic corrosion is often spread out over a greater surface area, prolonging the lifetime of the fastened joint. Scuttlebutt over on the Folbot Web site is that there was a bad batch of (aluminum?) rivets punched into boats a couple years back, which corrode out and leave some of the frame pieces detached from the longerons. Not happening on my boat, but could, and would probably happen less rapidly if the frame parts were not anodized. (I hit the frame parts now and then with a version of Boeshield, and it seems to help.) Bottom line: if the anodizing completely enshrouds *all* of the assembly from corrosive contact (i.e., salt water), then it is incredibly long-lasting. If there are gaps, there *may* be accelerated corrosion at the gaps if there is contact with a dissimilar metal. Oh, one other thing, anodizing usually produces some very toxic wastes, which cost a lot of money to deal with properly. Feathercraft may have the anodizing done someplace special because the diseconomy of a small-scale operation (which has to deal with proper disposal of those wastes just like a larger operation) has driven a lot of smaller anodizing places out of business. Feathercraft is not the kind of firm to have it done someplace which is cheaper because the anodizer deals improperly with the wastes. As a chemist who deals with waste disposal issues in a very small academic lab, I'm very conscious of the impact correct disposal has on the cost of my operation. Sometimes costs way more than the raw ingredients we buy. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
From: Dave >Maybe the best contribution I can make is that almost every statement I've read so far should be followed with the rejoinder ... "Well, that's generally true, but it also depends on [fill in the blank]." Maybe a story will help explain. > ======= dave's story adds to much of what i've heard/seen of metals in the marine environment.. which is why i was curious to see if anyone was making foot sliders from stainless steel or if a quality plastic had been proven in action. from the discussion, i speculate (a) that stainless is not used becaues of it would be too heavy and maybe cost more than folks are willing to pay and (b) no one seems to be making a plastic that stands up to the abuse. Bob Denton's glued foam could be the hi-tech solution! because it removes the possibility of blowing out a bulkhead from foot pressure on foam blocks. is the easy and practical choice al rails? i think so, but think better materials exist. comments? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Larry Bliven wrote: > is the easy and practical choice al rails? i think so, but think better > materials exist. > comments? > How about wood? I risk mentioning this because some people feel I have a bias toward Kleppers and this suggestion will only feed that feeling. Wood is surprisingly strong and with just a modicum of care will hold up well. It has been said that if wood were to have just been invented it would be considered a miracle material. Rather than foot pedals, do what some of the German boats do...have a thick rod run across the width of the boat to act as a foot brace. The ends of the rod fit into holes or notches in side rails also made of wood. The adjustments cannot be as minute as the increments allowed with aluminum or plastic but probably good enough. Your heels would push against it rather than the balls of your feet and put less stress on foot and leg tendons that a toe forward position sometimes can cause. You could also run your feet along the rod toward the center or outward to chance foot position and angles. You might move your feet toward the center when wanting to paddle strongly or to the sides of the rod when you need to brace with your knees tucked under the sides of the deck. The rod should go across the boat just above the floor so that your foot cannot get entrapped. This rod itself could not work to operate a rudder. But it is possible to attach to the rod some pedal type pieces that would pivot forward with slight toe action. These would be attached to cables not dissimilar to the way foot pedal operate rudders on the aluminum or plastic foot controls. To illustrate how this type foot brace looks, picture a curtain rod or shower curtain rod. In the case of the curtain rod, the ends go into U-shaped brackets. In the case of shower rods, into closed holders. Something in between would work. Think about it. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
[RD] > How about wood? I risk mentioning this because some people feel I have > a bias toward Kleppers Some of us even make the whole kayak out of wood!!!!! > Wood is surprisingly strong and with just a modicum of care will hold up > well. It has been said that if wood were to have just been invented it > would be considered a miracle material. The term applied to plywood is the "miracle-bi-direction- fibre", grows on trees too. > Rather than foot pedals, do what some of the German boats do...have a > thick rod run across the width of the boat to act as a foot brace. The > ends of the rod fit into holes or notches in side rails also made of > wood. > .............. > This rod itself could not work to operate a rudder. But it is possible > to attach to the rod some pedal type pieces that would pivot forward > with slight toe action. These would be attached to cables not > dissimilar to the way foot pedal operate rudders on the aluminum or > plastic foot controls. "Good heavens!!!!" you've just RE-invented our rudder pedal system. Make the pedals to the size of your feet, wider at the top, dropping down below the rod too, feed the rudder line to each pedal through a hole at the top outer edge, down and round the rod/tube and forward to a fixed point. You will now be able to reposition the pedal's rod without readjusting the rudder lines as they will automatically adjust. Alex -- ---------------------------------------------------- Alex Ferguson a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz Electronics Workshop, Chem Dept, Univ of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Alex Ferguson wrote: > > "Good heavens!!!!" you've just RE-invented our rudder > pedal system. > > Make the pedals to the size of your feet, wider at the top, > dropping down below the rod too, feed the rudder line to > each pedal through a hole at the top outer edge, down and > round the rod/tube and forward to a fixed point. You will > now be able to reposition the pedal's rod without readjusting > the rudder lines as they will automatically adjust. > > Alex > -- Which Alex has just done on an absolutly gorgeous kayak I had the pleasure of seeing with the miracle of electronic imaging... -- gabriel l romeu http://members.aol.com/romeug studio furniture http://members.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photos, prints, etc. http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR a daily photo journal *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Alex Ferguson wrote: > > [RD] > > How about wood? I risk mentioning this because some people feel I have > > a bias toward Kleppers > > Some of us even make the whole kayak out of wood!!!!! Alex, shhhh!!! I am trying to wean these folk a little at a time from their blind belief in "modern." Let's not jump ahead to ALL wood for god sake!!! > > > Wood is surprisingly strong and with just a modicum of care will hold up > > well. It has been said that if wood were to have just been invented it > > would be considered a miracle material. > > The term applied to plywood is the "miracle-bi-direction- > fibre", grows on trees too. Good...sounds real "modern." Call it MBD fibre for short. > > > Rather than foot pedals, do what some of the German boats do...have a > > thick rod run across the width of the boat to act as a foot brace. The > > ends of the rod fit into holes or notches in side rails also made of > > wood. > > .............. > > This rod itself could not work to operate a rudder. But it is possible > > to attach to the rod some pedal type pieces that would pivot forward > > with slight toe action. These would be attached to cables not > > dissimilar to the way foot pedal operate rudders on the aluminum or > > plastic foot controls. > > "Good heavens!!!!" you've just RE-invented our rudder > pedal system. Hate to tell you that I have seen sketches of this concept dating back to the 1920s!!! > > Make the pedals to the size of your feet, wider at the top, > dropping down below the rod too, feed the rudder line to > each pedal through a hole at the top outer edge, down and > round the rod/tube and forward to a fixed point. You will > now be able to reposition the pedal's rod without readjusting > the rudder lines as they will automatically adjust. Well, that is a clever approach. Self adjusting. Stirrup rudder setups used in Feathercrafts and Nautiraids work on about the same principle of a forward tie-off point but not quite as good as what you describe. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Larry Bliven wrote: > which is why i was curious to see if anyone was making foot sliders from > stainless steel ... > > from the discussion, i speculate (a) that stainless is not used becaues of > it would be too heavy and maybe cost more than folks are willing to pay . Stainless steel is not rustproof, only rust resistant. In a sea water environment it still rusts, albeit slowly. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
footpegs >Bob Denton's glued foam could be the hi-tech solution! because it removes >the possibility of blowing out a bulkhead from foot pressure on foam blocks. > besides corrosion proof, plastic may flexes more than some metals and thus plastic may help to reduce stresses on the hull at bolt fastener points. that is plastic distributes the load better. are al sliders associated with increased risk of stress fatigue on kevlar/fiberglass/plastic hulls? is glued foam desireable for single use boats, whereas al sliders are more desireable for multi-user boats? lots of factors to be considered.... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: so depends on [fill in the blank]." Maybe a story will help explain. > > Out here, they make gill net boats (for saltwater service) out of one of > the 5000-series aluminum alloys (don't know which one), so I scurried off > to my buddy who makes those boats when I wanted a chunk of > corrosion-resistant aluminum to make a skookum rudder horn for my Folbot. > Much to my surprise, if the horn is left, wet, in contact with the > seemingly-cheesy Folbot aluminum castings, it erodes badly at the contact, > and the castings *don't* corrode. Why? I don't know. I could speculate > about it, but the value of the speculation would be exactly equal to what > the readers of this list paid for it. The gill net boats hold up well in > marine service (years and years). Go figure. > One thing I have heard to prevent galvanic erosion is to attatch a disimilar metal which reacts more acutely to the process. this is referred to as a sacrificial anode. I believe that copper is a common material for this, though I can't be sure. > > Oh, one other thing, anodizing usually produces some very toxic wastes, > which cost a lot of money to deal with properly. Feathercraft may have the > anodizing done someplace special because the diseconomy of a small-scale > operation (which has to deal with proper disposal of those wastes just like > a larger operation) has driven a lot of smaller anodizing places out of > business. Feathercraft is not the kind of firm to have it done someplace > which is cheaper because the anodizer deals improperly with the wastes. > > As a chemist who deals with waste disposal issues in a very small academic > lab, I'm very conscious of the impact correct disposal has on the cost of > my operation. Sometimes costs way more than the raw ingredients we buy. > > -- > Dave Kruger The anodizing bath is ususally an acid, similar to the type in auto batteries. The pre-etch solution is sodium hydroxide (lye). The dye used for color may be an assortment of chemicals, most of which are fairly toxic as well. Dave is ver right. -- gabriel l romeu http://members.aol.com/romeug studio furniture http://members.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photos, prints, etc. http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR a daily photo journal *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gabriel L Romeu wrote: > One thing I have heard to prevent galvanic erosion is to attatch a > disimilar metal which reacts more acutely to the process. this is > referred to as a sacrificial anode. I believe that copper is a common > material for this, though I can't be sure. Gabriel describes the practice of attaching a "sacrificial" metal of greater tendency to corrode to another metal which is to be protected. This is common for steel-hulled vessels (are Nordkapps *that* heavy?), which often have several-pound chunks of zinc welded onto their sterns and other below-water parts. Copper, being *less* active than iron or aluminum, would have the opposite effect, and would accelerate the corrosion if attached to either. About those aluminum footbraces -- probably eventually fail at the place the fastener passes through them, but not for a long time. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Regarding anodizing. Type II anodizing ("hard anodizing") occurs in a sulfuric acid bath at 32degF using titanium racks and high DC voltage. It is intended for wearing surfaces and is often impregnated with teflon and is superior to the anodizing which is typically found on most aluminum items, such as tent poles. Some aluminum alloys are not conducive to this process. A sacrificial anode for steel and aluminum hulls is most often zinc. Aluminum boats are not hard anodized. Galvanic action between dissimilar metals accelerates corrosion of the least electrophilic metal, which gives up its electrons and oxidizes instead of the protected hull metal. Friction, failure to rinse saltwater from the metal (allowing it to dry on the metal) also accelerate corrosion. The quality of metal finishes (ASTM standards) is determined by the amount of time a surface can withstand a standard salt solution spray. Stainless steel is a beautiful thing, though even some times of stainless rust. Sid Taylor -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> Cc: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] aluminum and salt water >Dave Kruger wrote: >so depends on [fill in the blank]." Maybe a story will help explain. >> >> Out here, they make gill net boats (for saltwater service) out of one of >> the 5000-series aluminum alloys (don't know which one), so I scurried off >> to my buddy who makes those boats when I wanted a chunk of >> corrosion-resistant aluminum to make a skookum rudder horn for my Folbot. >> Much to my surprise, if the horn is left, wet, in contact with the >> seemingly-cheesy Folbot aluminum castings, it erodes badly at the contact, >> and the castings *don't* corrode. Why? I don't know. I could speculate >> about it, but the value of the speculation would be exactly equal to what >> the readers of this list paid for it. The gill net boats hold up well in >> marine service (years and years). Go figure. >> > >One thing I have heard to prevent galvanic erosion is to attatch a >disimilar metal which reacts more acutely to the process. this is >referred to as a sacrificial anode. I believe that copper is a common >material for this, though I can't be sure. >> >> Oh, one other thing, anodizing usually produces some very toxic wastes, >> which cost a lot of money to deal with properly. Feathercraft may have the >> anodizing done someplace special because the diseconomy of a small-scale >> operation (which has to deal with proper disposal of those wastes just like >> a larger operation) has driven a lot of smaller anodizing places out of >> business. Feathercraft is not the kind of firm to have it done someplace >> which is cheaper because the anodizer deals improperly with the wastes. >> >> As a chemist who deals with waste disposal issues in a very small academic >> lab, I'm very conscious of the impact correct disposal has on the cost of >> my operation. Sometimes costs way more than the raw ingredients we buy. >> >> -- >> Dave Kruger > >The anodizing bath is ususally an acid, similar to the type in auto >batteries. >The pre-etch solution is sodium hydroxide (lye). >The dye used for color may be an assortment of chemicals, most of which >are fairly toxic as well. > >Dave is ver right. > >-- >gabriel l romeu >http://members.aol.com/romeug studio furniture >http://members.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photos, prints, etc. >http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR a daily photo journal > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Seems to me if the boat is only a year old, it's too soon to have a blown out footpeg. Seems to me it's a design defect. I'd call the manufacturer and strongly suggest to them that they fix it their expense. Or send you a new part and pay for the repair service, or something along those lines. But do let them know. I agree with Dennis. It sounds like and inferior part. Barbara At 03:22 PM 1/23/99 -0500, Larry Bliven wrote: >hi, > >today i made a classic error and took two paddle sections from look alike >paddles to the boat ramp... with different diameter shafts, they don't >join.. oh well. one of the guys had a spare wing paddle which i used... lots >of fun.. the group had one olympic kayak, one olympic high kneel canoe, one >jensen 201(?) canoe and me in my year old artic hawk. i could barely keep >pace with the group.. only because they weren't really paddling hard and my >pulse rate was running in the 170's. > >anyway, after about a mile i blew out a footpeg. i went ashore and >reattached it and saw that the problem was that the plastic slide rail has >fatigued with use and the slot is wider than normal at my normal position. >so when i put a extra pressure on it, the footpeg blows out! happened twice >today. > >how can one fix a blown footpeg problem? > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > > * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * --*--*--*-- Sea Kayak Italia - Elba, Italy http://www.seakayakitaly.com tel. 650-728-8720 fax 650-728-8753 * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- * -- *--* --*-- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/24/99 8:58:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, bkossy_at_igc.apc.org writes: << Seems to me if the boat is only a year old, it's too soon to have a blown out footpeg. Seems to me it's a design defect. I'd call the manufacturer and strongly suggest to them that they fix it their expense. Or send you a new part and pay for the repair service, or something along those lines. But do let them know. I agree with Dennis. It sounds like and inferior part. >> I think more important then the age of the boat is how, and how often it's used. I have a friend who was paddling just about every day for an aerobic workout who managed to wear a hole through the one year old fiberglass hull of his boat from his heel rubbing on it. Nevertheless, you could be right about it being a defect. Either way, if you contact the manufacturer I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't more then happy to replace the part. I tried to buy a part I needed from Necky once, only to have them send it to me for free! Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> >> how can one fix a blown footpeg problem? > Thanks for the suggestions on how to fix this problem. i didn't give out much info because i was looking for a wide range of ideas... and numerous suggestions have been posted... maybe there are a few more? anyway i consider that the plastic part just wore out, the time period was more like a year and a half, and i have used the boat maybe 120 times on outings ranging from 5 to 15 miles (hi end cruising)... so for me, its not a defective part, just one that may not be designed for longevity. i could use foam blocks as a replacement, but given the pressure on them, it seems like that is inviting a bulkhead blow out. so the al rails seem to be the direction for me to take. i appreciate the input on the different al used in tent parts compared to those designed for marine use. sound like an opportunity for nich tent part manufactures. the suggestion that this is a good time to get another boat and paddle was fantastic! i'm working on that too. if there are other suggestions, please post them. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I was at the local WS dealer and he was having the same problem with BRAND NEW pegs. They've changed the design and they blow "out of the box". He was talking to a local engineer who was working on a drop in replacement. The other option is to replace the plastic witha yakima foot brace. cya > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Larry Bliven > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 1999 3:23 PM > To: apaddlewise > Subject: [Paddlewise] blown out footpeg > > > hi, > > today i made a classic error and took two paddle sections > from look alike > paddles to the boat ramp... with different diameter shafts, they don't > join.. oh well. one of the guys had a spare wing paddle which > i used... lots > of fun.. the group had one olympic kayak, one olympic high > kneel canoe, one > jensen 201(?) canoe and me in my year old artic hawk. i could > barely keep > pace with the group.. only because they weren't really > paddling hard and my > pulse rate was running in the 170's. > > anyway, after about a mile i blew out a footpeg. i went ashore and > reattached it and saw that the problem was that the plastic > slide rail has > fatigued with use and the slot is wider than normal at my > normal position. > so when i put a extra pressure on it, the footpeg blows out! > happened twice > today. > > how can one fix a blown footpeg problem? > > > ************************************************************** > ************* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have foam "foot pegs" in one of my Nordkapps and prefer it to the metal ones. I used a multi pin tool to take the shape of the hull then cut minicell to that shape and used 3M 5200 to glue em in. The "pegs' are about 10" long and 6 or 7 " wide. I've covered the business end with 3M antiskid. cya > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
hey folks, i appreciate all the info on footpegs. it looks like i will purchase the al yakama rails, which seem to be everywhere execpt .. at my local shop, the sales fellow called the yakama distributer who claims yak stopped making them about 20 years ago. on the other hand, lots of you seem to know of them and indeed early on a fellow contacted me with some for sale. (Thanks Steve Freund,QCC Kayaks Kayaks Direct (888) 794-3887 http://www.qualitycomposites.com , i will probably be calling soon). Yet the yak rep makes me curious as to what's up? i tried to fine the yakama web site so that i could ask them directly, but i can't find it (must be search burn out or something). Barbara makes another good point that i should check with WS to see what they will offer... that's the plan for tomorrow... i'm not the type to fuss over this... but if they want to fix it, that might be a good solution (you see that i now prefer aluminum so that i can play corrosion games :>) how well do Bob's foam footpegs glued to the hull hold up to foot pressure? how much duty have they seen? and how hard do you push on them? it's interesting to see how much i can learn about footpegs. feet first, bliven ===================== From: Bob Denton >I have foam "foot pegs" in one of my Nordkapps and prefer it to the metal >ones. I used a multi pin tool to take the shape of the hull then cut >minicell to that shape and used 3M 5200 to glue em in. The "pegs' are about >10" long and 6 or 7 " wide. I've covered the business end with 3M antiskid. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Larry wrote: >i appreciate all the info on footpegs. it looks like i will purchase the al yakama rails, >which seem to be everywhere execpt .. at my local shop, the sales fellow called the >yakama distributer who claims yak stopped making them about 20 years ago. on the >other hand, lots of you seem to know of them and indeed early on a fellow contacted >me with some for sale. (Thanks Steve Freund,QCC Kayaks Kayaks Direct (888) 794->3887 http://www.qualitycomposites.com , i will probably be calling soon). Yet the yak >rep makes me curious as to what's up? i tried to fine the yakama web site so that i >could ask them directly, but i can't find it (must be search burn out or something). Yakima hasn't made them for years, they sold the deal to Northwest Design Works, a.k.a. Werner Paddles. As of last year they shelved the name Northwest Design Works and are now just selling the under Werner Paddles. But, in spite of all that they will probably always be known as Yakima foot braces. I don't know if they sell retail, but we're happy to send out a pair here and there if you can't find them at your local store. Take care, Steve Freund QCC Kayaks http://www.qualitycomposites.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
hey steve, thanks for the info, i'll be calling tomorrow. paddlewise sure is helpful. and no pressure. thanks.... your web site is well done too. bliven >Yakima hasn't made them for years, they sold the deal to Northwest Design Works, a.k.a. Werner Paddles. As of last year they shelved the name Northwest Design Works and are now just selling the under Werner Paddles. But, in spite of all that they will probably always be known as Yakima foot braces. I don't know if they sell retail, but we're happy to send out a pair here and there if you can't find them at your local store. > >Take care, >Steve Freund >QCC Kayaks >http://www.qualitycomposites.com > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>anyway i consider that the plastic part just wore out, the time period >was more like a year and a half, and i have used the boat maybe 120 times >on outings ranging from 5 to 15 miles (hi end cruising)... so for me, its >not a defective part, just one that may not be designed for longevity. Good on ya'! As my Aussie boss would say. It would be interesting to know what the originator of the "defective part" suggestion thought was the normal amount of use for a one-year-old boat? What the "industry standard" would be considered to be? 10 days? That's about what I'd guess from the performance of the D*gg*r boats our university club bought a couple of years ago. LOTS of parts broke in less than a year. I was really appalled. (Kevin Whilden tested the Magellan and thinks That Company has improved, I believe.) Maybe they thought sea kayakers are wimps because few popular models are named after weapons, phallic symbols or nausea-inducing rotational phenomena. It seems crazy that just because a boat is rotomolded, the manufacturer would take the same attidude that Shimano seems to have toward the components for $259 "mountain bikes" (aka "alleged bikes"), that it's OK if it breaks because the purchaser isn't going to use it more than once anyway. Mike Wagenbach *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> how well do Bob's foam footpegs glued to the hull hold up to > foot pressure? > how much duty have they seen? and how hard do you push on them? I paddle between 15 and 30 miles every weekend and some of those miles are aerobic. I did initially glue them in with contact cement which eventually let go. I re-glued them with 3M 5200 with a bead around the exposed edges and it's held well for the past 5 or 6 months. I set the yak on it's side and glued in one block, held in place with scuba weights (10 to 12 lbs., then when it set, repeated the process on the other side. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
... so for me, its >>not a defective part, just one that may not be designed for longevity. > >Good on ya'! As my Aussie boss would say. It would be interesting to >know what the originator of the "defective part" suggestion thought was >the normal amount of use for a one-year-old boat? I suppose that Larrys' 120 times in a year and a half may well be double of that considered to be "normal" use. But even if it were two years of normal use it still is a difficult to accept annoyance. I have one boat(Romany)with Yakima-type(I had no idea that they were no longer Yakima-Thanks for the info)and another boat(Seda Impulse) with Perception keepers that I've paddled in excess of 600 and 400 times respectively with no footpeg failure. The Arctic Hawk is a quality composite(great design-great boat)kayak and as such deserves better footpegs. The past couple of years I've seen many footpeg failures in both Wilderness Systems and Dagger boats, many practically brand new. All that being said, I've another boat on order and it is to come with no footpegs and no holes in the hull for same. I'm going the foam against the bulkhead route. Seems to be more comfy. Great discussion. I've learned more the past few days about metallurgy than I thought I could. Thanks. Dennis >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
hey folks, with your help, i made the decission to fix the footpegs on my artic hawk with yakima sliders. the purchase/delivery was easy thanks to Steve Freund,QCC Kayaks Kayaks Direct (888) 794-3887 http://www.qualitycomposites.com the installation was easy. bolt out - bolt in. my paddle today was enjoyable - however chilly for this region. it was just below freezing, so i had my second experience with deck icing. not a big deal for this couple of hour paddle. due to the low tide, the take out was muddy. since the boat was a mess, i stopped at a car wash to clean it up. due to freezing temps, the timer on the wash unit gave me 15 minutes extra time for free! so both the boat and truck got washed, rinsed and lemon waxed. when i got home, i learned more about cold weather paddling. the bow line and the straps on the boat were all frozen solid! now here's something new, kayak frozen in place. well after a bit, i broke it loose and stowed it. folks north of here must have a million tricks for paddling in really cold weather. thanks much for the secure footing. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:55 PDT