Are any women on the list having trouble with any aspects of assembling or disassembling their folding kayaks? I just took my K-Light apart to pack for my upcoming Baja trip... it must have taken an hour and half! If you've got any secrets to make the job easier, please pass them my way While getting the big struts INTO place is the sticking point when I put it together (this is when I go screaming for a man to help), I struggled FOREVER with sliding the two end frame sections out of the skin on disassembly, even longer than I struggled with getting those two struts OUT of place! Please someone, design a folding boat that doesn't require so much muscle! Sheesh! Well, now that I've got that out of my system, I'm going to try to cram all that "stuff" into the backpack........ (and I did, BTW, disassemble it entirely by myself!!) ;-) -- Karen Hancock San Clemente, CA magpi_at_access1.net 949/487-2602 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Karen H. wrote: > it together (this is when I go screaming for a man to help), I struggled > FOREVER with sliding the two end frame sections out of the skin on > disassembly, even longer than I struggled with getting those two struts > OUT of place! It seems that you left your K-light assembled for quite awhile before knocking it down. If any folding kayak is left assembled for a long time, the skin really hugs the frame and it can be difficult to pull the halves out. With the K-Light, it would help if you wet the deck. The cordura gets stretchy and things will loosen up. Two of the principles of the 6 I have outlined in various places apply: The Remote Solution Principle. While you have to pull the frame half out the cockpit and are finding it stuck, the solution may be at a place remote from where you are doing the work, namely the very ends of the boat. Try grabbing the bow or stern end and give it a good shaking up and down and pull. That helps break the adhesion of skin to frame at the ends of the boat. The Umbrella Principle. The long pieces of the frame are pushing out against the skin, which is what they are supposed to do like an umbrella's frame. If you cradle the ends of the gunwale and chine bars in your arms and squeeze them in toward each other, you relieve the outward push of these long pieces against the skin. While pressing them inward with the inside of your arms, pull toward the cockpit and the frame halves will come out. None of this takes strength just some savvy. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
And right you are Ralph! It's been assembled since before I left Alaska... about 10 months, and the skin was exactly as you describe below. I might point out the Umbrella Principle only works if the Remote Solution Principle has been applied successfully, otherwise you can bear hug that thing till you drop, but the frame will not come out! I ended up peeling the skin away from each frame piece from center toward ends; the sponsons (which I tried to empty of air first thing) would not stay out of the way! It was a real comedy. Would have been much easier with another set of hands. (Also, while wetting the skin might have helped, it would have meant packing it into the bag wet.) I have to say, previous disassemblies were far easier... the frame just slid out of the skin, so I was not prepared for this struggle. While getting the frame in and out of the skin isn't particularly "muscle" intensive, the thing I find requires strength is getting those 2 larger crossribs in and out of position. I've seen the Feathercraft video, and read how they should just rotate into place, but I cannot get them to do that. The gunwale bars have to be pulled out to give the thing enough room to rotate up and into the spot between the pins. It requires either pulling from outside, skin and all, or pushing from inside. Both operations require more strength (in the hands I think) than I've got. On the other hand, the up side of leaving the boat assembled so long might be that it will assemble easier next time! I'll find out in a few days.... (but I'll also have men along to help me!) ;-) Thanks to everyone who wrote to cheer me on! karen rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > It seems that you left your K-light assembled for quite awhile before > knocking it down. If any folding kayak is left assembled for a long > time, the skin really hugs the frame and it can be difficult to pull the > halves out. With the K-Light, it would help if you wet the deck. The > cordura gets stretchy and things will loosen up. > > Two of the principles of the 6 I have outlined in various places apply: > > The Remote Solution Principle. While you have to pull the frame half > out the cockpit and are finding it stuck, the solution may be at a place > remote from where you are doing the work, namely the very ends of the > boat. Try grabbing the bow or stern end and give it a good shaking up > and down and pull. That helps break the adhesion of skin to frame at > the ends of the boat. > > The Umbrella Principle. The long pieces of the frame are pushing out > against the skin, which is what they are supposed to do like an > umbrella's frame. If you cradle the ends of the gunwale and chine bars > in your arms and squeeze them in toward each other, you relieve the > outward push of these long pieces against the skin. While pressing them > inward with the inside of your arms, pull toward the cockpit and the > frame halves will come out. > > None of this takes strength just some savvy. > > ralph > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Karen Hancock San Clemente, CA magpi_at_access1.net 949/487-2602 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/16/99 6:34:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, magpi_at_access1.net writes: << Please someone, design a folding boat that doesn't require so much muscle! >> Karen, if it's taking muscle, you're not doing it right. There should be little effort needed for most assembly or disassembly procedures. I'm not sure what your exact complaint is about getting the end assemblies out of the skin, but since you mention strength, I'll assume you mean that the bow and stern sections are sticking in the ends of the skin. If this is the case, don't try to muscle them out. Instead, try this: 1. kneel at the end of the boat, facing the cockpit; 2. grab the bow (stern) at the very end with your right hand, then grab the keel line of the skin with your left hand (palm up) back about 12 to 16 inches from your right; 3. with the heel of your right hand against the tip of the bow (stern) give a quick, short, jabbing push back toward the cockpit. This will usually cause the skin to buckle a little between the opposing hands and break the end of the frame loose from the inside of the skin, allowing it to be pulled easily out from the cockpit opening. Has the boat been left assembled for some time, or disassembled each time it is used? It could be that grit and salt are contributing to the problem. If the former does not work, I would try spraying some water inside. While my Khatsalano is harder to build and take apart than the K-Light, the former technique always works fine and doesn't really take lots of strength. I find it even easier on the K-Light. <<While getting the big struts INTO place is the sticking point when I put it together . . . >> Again not enough info to tell me exactly what the problem is. By "struts" do you mean the tubes or the ribs? If you are having problems slipping the sleeves over the center section tubes to join the front and rear assemblies, (not uncommon) the answer again is not to muscle it. 1. Position yourself on the side of the cockpit opposite the tubes you are joining (don't attempt to work on the same-side tubes -- its just too frustrating); 2. grab the sliding sleeve in one hand - palm down, and the matching tube with the other hand; 3. gently pull both tubes back toward you, away from the skin, bending the tubes slightly to align the ends; 4. when you have the tubes aligned, slide the sleeve hand toward the opposite hand to slip the sleeve onto the matching tube; 3. if any excess friction is felt, try realigning the tubes slightly and wiggle the tubes lightly. This should not take muscle. Do make certain the tubes and sleeves are free of grit and have a light coating of the lubricant supplied by FC. Hope this helps. If I had more info, I might be better able to describe the process. Some of the little tricks that Doug Simpson of FC uses to make the assembly go easier are not real obvious from the video and instructions. And while the assembly may not be as easy as for some of the other folders out there, the K-Light's a great little boat and I think the performance is worth it. Good luck, and have a great trip. <<Are any women on the list . . . >> Ooops! Not quite a lady, :-) Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Karen Hancock wrote: > Please someone, design a folding boat that doesn't require so much muscle! Sounds as if breakdown paddles and folding kayaks have something in common. Any ideas why people would buy "able to be taken apart equipment" if they don't do that? I hate cutting paddles up and would rather not if I could convince people that they cause nothing but problems..... Hank Hays Lightning Paddles *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gee, I missed most of this but for three winters I assembled Kleppers regularly - I would second that if it is taking muscle look for another way to do Andree PS I'm a small female sort Andree Hurley Hurley Design Communications - ICQ# 27469637 Web Sites for Specialty Businesses - http://www.viewit.com/HDC/ Kayaking - http://www.viewit.com/KIX/ http://www.viewit.com/wtr/kayak.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Believe me, I'm not failing to try different things. If it requires some special technique, the video and written instructions are not making it clear to me. Quoting from Feathercraft instructions, on Installing Large Crossribs: "Position large crossrib to lay on top of gunwale tubes. Slide forward towards pins on gunwale tubes. Rotate crossrib into position. Place crossrib between gunwale pins nearest you by pushing gunwale bar up and over end of crosspiece and snapping into position." It is that last bit... "pushing gunwale bar up and over end of crosspiece" that gives me the difficulty. It entails pushing with hands or fingers against the pressure created by the tight fit of the skin, and that is my weakness. I do not have the strength in my hands to do this. That crossrib has not yet just "snapped" into position for me! My husband has had to perform this one step for me every time, and it doesn't quite "snap" for him either. The difficulty in removing the frame from the skin was, as Ralph picked out immediately, due to the length of time the boat was assembled. But, perhaps now the boat has been assembled so long it will be easier to maneuver the crossribs. I will report to the list how it went when I get back from Baja (leaving tomorrow). BTW, once the thing is all packed in its bag, it's hard to believe there's a boat in there! ;-) Karen Andree Hurley wrote: > > Gee, I missed most of this but for three winters I assembled Kleppers > regularly - I would second that if it is taking muscle look for another > way to do > > Andree > PS I'm a small female sort > > Andree Hurley > Hurley Design Communications - ICQ# 27469637 > Web Sites for Specialty Businesses - http://www.viewit.com/HDC/ > Kayaking - http://www.viewit.com/KIX/ http://www.viewit.com/wtr/kayak.html -- Karen Hancock San Clemente, CA magpi_at_access1.net 949/487-2602 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Karen H. wrote: > > Believe me, I'm not failing to try different things. If it requires some > special technique, the video and written instructions are not making it > clear to me. Let me break this to you gently. I have not seen the videos in quite awhile but the one that was first used was with a doctored skin. It was quite loose and so things did look easy. Plus the boat was being made by the Feathercraft owner/designer and so it _is_ exceedingly easy for him. But do not dismay. Let's go to your problem in putting the crossribs in. > Quoting from Feathercraft instructions, on Installing Large Crossribs: > > "Position large crossrib to lay on top of gunwale tubes. Slide forward > towards pins on gunwale tubes. Rotate crossrib into position. Place > crossrib between gunwale pins nearest you by pushing gunwale bar up and > over end of crosspiece and snapping into position." Are you able to this step, i.e. get the crossrib so that its edges are resting between the two pin/spacers on the gunwale tubes? It is important that you are in this position. I slide the crossrib on the gunwales until it comes into contact with those pin/spacers and then I rotate the rib downward so it is square between them. > > It is that last bit... "pushing gunwale bar up and over end of > crosspiece" that gives me the difficulty. It entails pushing with hands > or fingers against the pressure created by the tight fit of the skin, > and that is my weakness. I do not have the strength in my hands to do > this. That crossrib has not yet just "snapped" into position for me! My > husband has had to perform this one step for me every time, and it > doesn't quite "snap" for him either. This up and over can be difficult if the skin is tight. That is why it should be wetted so that the cordura stretches and gives you some more playing room. That pushing the gunwale bar up can be hard but have you tried reversing the situation? Whenever I find it difficult, I just roll the boat on its side so that the crossrib is resting on the bar and I can then pull the bar into a spot where I can snap the cross piece _on to_ the gunwale bar. It again is one of the Six Principles--the Mountain to Mohamed Principle (i.e. moving the big piece to the small piece rather than the other way around). Your have more leverage grabbing and pushing the crossrib on to the gunwale bar than the reverse. Moreover most people have more strength pressing down with their whole body than upwards with just their fingers. > > The difficulty in removing the frame from the skin was, as Ralph picked > out immediately, due to the length of time the boat was assembled. You were actually lucky. Feathercrafts have very close tolerances in their male/female tube connections and should not be left assembled for more than 3 or 4 months. You left it for 10 months. You must have lubricated it real well when you last assembled to accomplish that. I have seen frames seize up on Feathercrafts when left assembled long. Feathercraft now does advise not leaving the boats assembled for more than 3 or 4 months. Those close tight tolerances make for strong connections but the downside is that they can stick over time. I have an article in the next newsletter on storing folding kayaks assembled particularly the Feathercrafts which do have that problem mentioned above. Other makes fair better and can be left together for years and years (your only problem might be having forgotten how to disassemble!); but even with them there are some dos and donts. As for dealing with a stuck frame, I have done several articles in the past of steps to take to get a stuck one apart short of cutting a piece. > > But, perhaps now the boat has been assembled so long it will be easier > to maneuver the crossribs. I will report to the list how it went when I > get back from Baja (leaving tomorrow). Espero que todo te vaya bien en tu viaje. > BTW, once the thing is all packed in its bag, it's hard to believe > there's a boat in there! ;-) Yes, it always amazes people when a boat emerges from that not so large bag. best, ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/17/99 12:57:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, magpi_at_access1.net writes: << It is that last bit... "pushing gunwale bar up and over end of crosspiece" that gives me the difficulty. It entails pushing with hands or fingers against the pressure created by the tight fit of the skin, and that is my weakness. >> There's a cute little trick for that. First, install/remove the ribs in the same order Doug does on the video. Next, reach in with both hands as if to strangle the crosspiece (you know you want to), with fingers around the outside of the crosspiece. Place your thumbs on the gunwale tube on each side of the crosspiece, then rock your hands to create a strong levering action, pushing the tube over the edge of the crosspiece notch. If the tube doesn't just pop into the notch, simply smack it one with the heel of your hand on the outside of the fabric and it should pop home. Use a similar levering action on the chine tubes. Two other points: always engage/disengage the tubes in the same order Doug does, and always work on the same or opposite side of the boat as Doug does in the video -- it really does make it easier. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Not sure if this was mentioned but I always do the coaming last and have never experienced any difficulty with the large pieces. cu -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of HTERVORT_at_aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 5:18 PM To: magpi_at_access1.net; paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Women assembling/disassembling folding kayaks!!! In a message dated 3/17/99 12:57:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, magpi_at_access1.net writes: << It is that last bit... "pushing gunwale bar up and over end of crosspiece" that gives me the difficulty. It entails pushing with hands or fingers against the pressure created by the tight fit of the skin, and that is my weakness. >> There's a cute little trick for that. First, install/remove the ribs in the same order Doug does on the video. Next, reach in with both hands as if to strangle the crosspiece (you know you want to), with fingers around the outside of the crosspiece. Place your thumbs on the gunwale tube on each side of the crosspiece, then rock your hands to create a strong levering action, pushing the tube over the edge of the crosspiece notch. If the tube doesn't just pop into the notch, simply smack it one with the heel of your hand on the outside of the fabric and it should pop home. Use a similar levering action on the chine tubes. Two other points: always engage/disengage the tubes in the same order Doug does, and always work on the same or opposite side of the boat as Doug does in the video -- it really does make it easier. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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