>> At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is red. The yellow and green cyalume lights will ruin your night vision completely. Red has no effect. >> I've heard it said lately that the color of the light is not so important as its intensity -- that a dim white light will not harm night vision more than a dim red light. I have also seen references to the military using green lighting to protect night vision. Jack, what do you know about this? Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- Don Dimond wrote: I recommend using a red cyalume lightstick from Campmor if you want to navigate at night. I find that I have to splash water onto my deck compass if condensation builds up on it while paddling. This is a very good point, and one I haven't seen mentioned here before. At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is red. The yellow and green cyalume lights will ruin your night vision completely. Red has no effect. Something to consider when buying gear and especially charts, if you plan on doing a lot of paddling at night. I don't know if there are maps and charts commercially available that are red light readable, we are still in the process of changing over in the Marine Corps. A red light readable chart will have anything normally in red in brown instead. Red on a map or chart does not show up under a red light, certain browns do. Regards, Aaron Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:24 02-03-99 -0600, CHUCK_at_multitech.com (Chuck Holst) wrote: > > >>> >At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is >red. The yellow and green cyalume lights will ruin your night vision >completely. Red has no effect. >>> > >I've heard it said lately that the color of the light is not so >important as its intensity -- that a dim white light will not harm >night vision more than a dim red light. I have also seen references >to the military using green lighting to protect night vision. > >Jack, what do you know about this? > >Chuck Holst last time this came up, someone provided a reference to a "reliable source" saying this wasn't true [the red light] although we used it on our ships in 1990, i can't say what they use now, mainly cause i got out in '90, and moved 2000 miles from the nearest ocean ;-) mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index of Paddling websites I manage] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net From: Mark Zen <canoeist_at_netbox.com> Send reply to: canoeist_at_netbox.com Date sent: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 12:03:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] compass and red light Mark Zen wrote --- > last time [night vision] came up, someone provided a reference to a "reliable source" > saying this wasn't true [the red light] although we used it on our ships in > 1990, i can't say what they use now, mainly cause i got out in '90, and moved > 2000 miles from the nearest ocean ;-) > For Mark and Chuck, anyway, last time I flew Navy aircraft, we had red filters on all the candles on and in the instrument cluster; later, when we converted to coal oil lamps, we stayed with red. In the meanwhile, the Navy went to dim white light in aircraft --- can't imagine your ships changing, Mark: y'know, "224 years of tradition, unhampered by progress --- the United States Navy! It was easier to see than white, and was easier for the relatively senior guys to see <anything> at night! (To this day, I hate renting anything by Pontiac --- can't see a bloody thing on those red panels at night!) Anyway, now we're all into pale green cockpit lighting for compatibility with night vision goggles (NVGs) on all tactical aircraft. A red light in an NVG is instant bloom and loss of vision for the time being --- a bad thing, especially on final to a carrier on a dark and stormy night. I know I promised more analysis from Pax River, Chuck, and I'll try to get the definitive word on that tomorrow. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>From what I understand, MIG pilots used dim white light. cya -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of Jack Martin Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 4:24 PM To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net; canoeist_at_netbox.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] compass and red light To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net From: Mark Zen <canoeist_at_netbox.com> Send reply to: canoeist_at_netbox.com Date sent: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 12:03:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] compass and red light Mark Zen wrote --- > last time [night vision] came up, someone provided a reference to a "reliable source" > saying this wasn't true [the red light] although we used it on our ships in > 1990, i can't say what they use now, mainly cause i got out in '90, and moved > 2000 miles from the nearest ocean ;-) > For Mark and Chuck, anyway, last time I flew Navy aircraft, we had red filters on all the candles on and in the instrument cluster; later, when we converted to coal oil lamps, we stayed with red. In the meanwhile, the Navy went to dim white light in aircraft --- can't imagine your ships changing, Mark: y'know, "224 years of tradition, unhampered by progress --- the United States Navy! It was easier to see than white, and was easier for the relatively senior guys to see <anything> at night! (To this day, I hate renting anything by Pontiac --- can't see a bloody thing on those red panels at night!) Anyway, now we're all into pale green cockpit lighting for compatibility with night vision goggles (NVGs) on all tactical aircraft. A red light in an NVG is instant bloom and loss of vision for the time being --- a bad thing, especially on final to a carrier on a dark and stormy night. I know I promised more analysis from Pax River, Chuck, and I'll try to get the definitive word on that tomorrow. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Zen wrote --- > last time [night vision] came up, someone provided a reference to a "reliable source" > saying this wasn't true [the red light] although we used it on our ships in > 1990, i can't say what they use now, mainly cause i got out in '90, and moved > 2000 miles from the nearest ocean ;-) > For Mark and Chuck, anyway, last time I flew Navy aircraft, we had red filters on all the candles on and in the instrument cluster; later, when we converted to coal oil lamps, we stayed with red. In the meanwhile, the Navy went to dim white light in aircraft --- can't imagine your ships changing, Mark: y'know, "224 years of tradition, unhampered by progress --- the United States Navy! It was easier to see than white, and was easier for the relatively senior guys to see <anything> at night! (To this day, I hate renting anything by Pontiac --- can't see a bloody thing on those red panels at night!) Anyway, now we're all into pale green cockpit lighting for compatibility with night vision goggles (NVGs) on all tactical aircraft. A red light in an NVG is instant bloom and loss of vision for the time being --- a bad thing, especially on final to a carrier on a dark and stormy night. I know I promised more analysis from Pax River, Chuck, and I'll try to get the definitive word on that tomorrow. Jack Martin Jack, Mark and Chuck, et al, I have been doing more research on this. One aspect of this seems to be a divergence of opinions between the ground and the surface and air components. No surprise there huh? What I have found is that red light does not stimulate the rods of the eye, (as long as light transmitted below 650 nm is eliminated). This in turn lets the rods adapt to the dark. As near as I can discover this does not affect the cones, they need plain old dark to adapt to the dark. This should not be important since, in my understanding the cones are incapable of operating in star light. I could easily be wrong on this part however. It is also worth mentioning that it takes around 30 minutes for the rods to adjust to the dark. Also, each eye adjusts independently, so if you do need to expose a bright light, closing one eye will maintain your night vision in that eye. Another factor in our environment is daylight exposure to bright light. 4-5 hours of exposure to bright daylight can delay the acquisition of night vision by ten minutes or more, as well as lowering the final level. After a week or two, (again I am fuzzy here) the cumulative effect of this can be up to a 50% reduction in night vision. The jist - wear sunglasses and a brimmed hat in the sun. Blue or blue green lights are used in many cockpits in which the pilots will be using third generations NVDs. The new NVDs are not sensitive to light in this part of the spectrum, the human eye is however. In addition, blue light is best for near vision. If you are using the latest generation of night vision devices, then you might want to go with blue light. Another thing to bear in mind is the part of the eye used to view objects at night. The center part of the eye is used to identify objects, the outside of the eye is used for spatial orientation and motion detection. Therefore it is often easier to see in the dark by looking out the side of your eye, or on the periphery of your vision, rather than looking directly at whatever it is you are trying to see. I'll conclude this now, it is already long enough. As always this is only going to be part of the answer, to part of the question. By the way, what was the question? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:24:49 -0600, Chuck wrote: >>At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is >>red. The yellow and green cyalume lights will ruin your night vision >>completely. Red has no effect. >I've heard it said lately that the color of the light is not so >important as its intensity -- that a dim white light will not harm >night vision more than a dim red light. I have also seen references >to the military using green lighting to protect night vision. I've also heard it said that the red light theory was a hoax developed by the Brits to annoy/distract the enemy during WWII and that there is no basis for red being any better than any other colour of the same intensity. -- cheers, Stephen stephen.bird_at_superaje.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Stephen Bird wrote: > On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:24:49 -0600, Chuck wrote: > > >>At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is > >>red. The yellow and green cyalume lights will ruin your night vision > >>completely. Red has no effect. > > >I've heard it said lately that the color of the light is not so > >important as its intensity -- that a dim white light will not harm > >night vision more than a dim red light. I have also seen references > >to the military using green lighting to protect night vision. > > I've also heard it said that the red light theory was a hoax developed by > the Brits to annoy/distract the enemy during WWII and that there is no > basis for red being any better than any other colour of the same intensity. A friend of mine is a professor of optometry and is very interested in astronomy and has done extensive research on radiation effects on the eyes. I've discussed this stuff with him often. Dim red light does preserve dark adaptation. Bright red light can reduce it. Dim light of other colors can help preserve dark adaptation, but bright light of other colors will zap it quickly. Kayaking at night in a wilderness or open water environment would certainly benefit from dark adaptation. Night paddling in urban regions would not. One exposure to bright light can require ten to twenty minutes to recover full dark adaptation. A farce is the use of red lights in automobile dashboards. These provide no benefits at all. You never dark adapt when driving; there are simply too many bright light sources that you'll be exposed to (like the reflected light of your own headlights). As someone else pointed out, as you age, your ability to see dim red light is reduced and older drivers are at a disadvantage (my friend drives an Audi and _hates_ the red night illumination for that very reason - so much for ergonomics in the auto industry). The use of red lights for older paddlers using charts and compasses should be given consideration in light of this. If it works for you, use it , if not, consider a dim light of other color. There's no point on fixating on the importance of red lights if it means that you can't work effectively. You can tell if you are reaching complete dark adaptation rather easily. If it's a clear night, watch the sky. At first, the sky looks like stars on a black background. After a while, the background will appear to gray and you'll get the impression that the sky is getting hazy. In fact, this is a consequence of your retina becoming saturated with the chemicals that cause dark adaptation. Hope this helps, Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Various folks wrote: > > >>At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is > > >>red. > > > > >I've heard it said lately that the color of the light is not so > > >important as its intensity -- that a dim white light will not harm > > >night vision more than a dim red light. I have also seen references > > >to the military using green lighting to protect night vision. > > > > I've also heard it said that the red light theory was a hoax > > developed by the Brits > I'm reminded of an incident back in the days that I was doing a lot of TSD rallying in cars. Our local club had one highly skilled rallyest, VAnce Swift, who was known to use red lights in his car on night rallies. You have to have some illumination so the navigator can read the route directions and calculate time, speed, and distance. Anyway, one rallyemaster decided the time had come to get Vance, so he printed some of the directions in red. These didn't show up on Vance's sheet, so he didn't win for a change. It was only later that we all realized that the name of the event, the GVS Rallye stood for "Get Vance Swift". Or so the story goes. Steve -- Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes, you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:24:49 -0600, Chuck wrote: > >>>At night the only color that will not damage your night vision is >>>red. The yellow and green cyalume lights will ruin your night vision >>>completely. Red has no effect. > > > >I've also heard it said that the red light theory was a hoax developed by >the Brits to annoy/distract the enemy during WWII and that there is no >basis for red being any better than any other colour of the same intensity. > >--During WW2 prior to a night flight we did wear red glasses for an hour >or so. Never tried any other color. Joe S Apopka, FL mailto:jsanford_at_sundial.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>>I've heard it said lately that the color of the light is not so >>important as its intensity -- that a dim white light will not harm >>night vision more than a dim red light. I have also seen references >>to the military using green lighting to protect night vision. >I've also heard it said that the red light theory was a hoax developed by >the Brits to annoy/distract the enemy during WWII and that there is no >basis for red being any better than any other colour of the same intensity. > --A little off topic but some years ago the Bronx Zoo was developing their small mammal and Night exhibit. At first they tried red light in the corridors for us humans. They discovered that a huge percentage of people had real trouble orienting in those conditions and kept bumping into things.... So the last time I was there, it was basically total darkness plus some dim white light. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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