1. It should have a zipper so it can be easily put on or removed at sea, without it going over your head. 2. It should be full in the body so it can go over your pfd. (So you don't have to remove the pfd and put it back on.) 3. It should be short so it doesn't bunch up against your spray deck. 4. It should have a mechanism to keep it from flopping over your head if you are rolling. 5. It should be of breathable fabric. 6. No hood. Rain hats are better. 7. Pockets. Where can I get one? Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
What weight? Insulated? Waterproof? Windproof? Drytop with gaskets? If no to above, a simple oversized fleece jacket with an elastic bottom comes awful close to your ideal. By the time it fits over the PFD it is even short enough. In our area these are going cheap in winter closeouts. At 09:51 PM 3/2/99 -0800, Gerald Foodman wrote: >1. It should have a zipper so it can be easily put on or removed at sea, >without it going over your head. >2. It should be full in the body so it can go over your pfd. (So you don't >have to remove the pfd and put it back on.) >3. It should be short so it doesn't bunch up against your spray deck. >4. It should have a mechanism to keep it from flopping over your head if >you are rolling. >5. It should be of breathable fabric. >6. No hood. Rain hats are better. >7. Pockets. > >Where can I get one? > >Jerry > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gerald Foodman wrote: > > 1. It should have a zipper so it can be easily put on or removed at sea, > without it going over your head. > 2. It should be full in the body so it can go over your pfd. (So you don't > have to remove the pfd and put it back on.) > 3. It should be short so it doesn't bunch up against your spray deck. > 4. It should have a mechanism to keep it from flopping over your head if > you are rolling. > 5. It should be of breathable fabric. > 6. No hood. Rain hats are better. > 7. Pockets. I'm puzzled by something not on your list: do you want this jacket to keep you dry? If so, then you will need latex gaskets at the wrists, and (probably) at the neck. In addition, that means you can't have a top-to-bottom zipper, because it would have to penetrate the neck seal, whether a neoprene or latex seal. I'm also wondering how it can be full enough to go over your PFD without being so large it flops around some when you go inverted. Am I missing something here? Seems like your list has some built-in contradictions. I think you'll have to give up on the zipper. In any case, my experience with Kokatat's Goretex paddling jacket (latex at the wrists, neoprene at the neck; will go under the PFD, not over; no zipper) is that I can put it on or take it off on the water, but, yeah, I have to take off my PFD to do that. I also need someone to stabilize my boat in lumpy water while I'm doing the gymnastics! The Kokatat PJ fits the rest of your criteria. (No affiliation with Kokatat.) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jerry Foodman wrote: > 1. It should have a zipper so it can be easily put on or removed at sea, > without it going over your head. > 2. It should be full in the body so it can go over your pfd. > (So you don't > have to remove the pfd and put it back on.) > 3. It should be short so it doesn't bunch up against your spray deck. > 4. It should have a mechanism to keep it from flopping over your head if > you are rolling. > 5. It should be of breathable fabric. > 6. No hood. Rain hats are better. > 7. Pockets. > Don't agree with your statement 6. I like hats, but with a bit of wind, rain, and spray I prefer the protection you get from a hood. I've a Patagonia Skanorak (sea kayak anorak) and it fulfils all of your criteria bar 6 superbly (It has a hood, which IMHO is absolutely the best design that I've seen). Patagucci has a pretty comprehensive web site at: www.patagonia.com. You may also be interested in having a look at: http://www.knoydart-kayaking.co.uk/foul.htm If I didn't already have the patagucci Skanorak, I'd probably buy one of knoydart's ocean cags. Cheers Colin Calder 57º19'N 2º10'W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Colin Calder" <c.j.calder_at_abdn.ac.uk> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Ideal Touring Paddle Jacket Date sent: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:11:40 -0000 > > If I didn't already have the patagucci Skanorak, I'd probably buy one of > knoydart's ocean cags. > Strong endorsement on the Skaonarak. I have an ancient one --- pre-breathable fabrics --- that is an all-purpose piece of rain gear. Also picked up a slightly damaged (stained) Palm storm cag at a kayak show --- fits over everything, including the cockpit rim and the PFD, has a very effective hood, and is bright colored --- flourescent yellow. No breathability, but is a great piece of gear for paddling in cold rain. Long zipper so you can paddle with it in place, and pull it up when needed, but you do have to pull it up over your head otherwise. GRO has it in their catalog --- not cheap, but not as expensive as the Patagucci Skanorak. But not as multi- purpose as the Skanorak, either --- kinda hard explaining the storm cag's skirt in the 7-11 when you're out for milk on a rainy day. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jack Martin wrote: > not as expensive as the Patagucci Skanorak. But not as multi- > purpose as the Skanorak, either --- kinda hard explaining the storm > cag's skirt in the 7-11 when you're out for milk on a rainy day. I dunno about that red-neck Chesapeake scene down in Jack's country. I have walked into delis and local MacDonald's in the Bronx and Brooklyn wearing a sprayskirt and PFD and gotten not even a glance. :-) As for breatheable jackets, I see in the latest NOC catalog that they are offering several Palm models at quite reasonable prices in a range of styles, also one model of breathable waterproof pants. All the items seem to be lower priced than their equivalents in Kokotat, Patagonia, Mountain Surf, what have you. These waterproof/breathable Palm items are supposed to be quite lightweight which is an advantage and breath via a coating rather than membrane, referring competitively to Goretex, and therefore not likely "to clog." ralph diaz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > [snip] These waterproof/breathable Palm items > are supposed to be quite lightweight which is an advantage and breath > via a coating rather than membrane, referring competitively to Goretex, > and therefore not likely "to clog." It's the skeptical chemist speaking here: Membrane, shmembrane, coating, shcoating, if it's a breathable waterproof fabric, it's pretty much all the same technology. A coating is a membrane by another name, perhaps differing in thickness by a few millionths of an inch. The Palm assertion that a "coating" is less likely than a membrane to "clog" is highly suspect. Whatever its name, each depends on having submicroscopic holes in a water-repelling layer (coating, membrane, you pick the label) which water vapor molecules can diffuse through, but which water **droplets** -- being larger -- can not wick through. If the Palm coating is appreciably thinner than Gore's membrane, then it might be more breathable (at the same waterproofness), but I would question its durability. Even the Goretex membrane, field-tested and improved on for over twenty years, eventually will develop cracks and voids, allowing water droplets through. I think the Palm claim is marketing hype, but, as usual, I could be wrong. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR organic cheist *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > ... Whatever its name, each depends on having > submicroscopic holes in a water-repelling layer (coating, membrane, > you > pick the label) which water vapor molecules can diffuse through, but > which > water **droplets** -- being larger -- cannot wick through. ... Well said. I have owned various Gore-Tex garments as well as various garments with microporous coatings. It has been my experience that the Gore-Tex is more breathable (for a given degree of waterproofness). I have a theory as to why this is the case. As Dave states above, you need the holes to be small enough so that water droplets cannot pass through. But due to inherent imperfections in the manufacturing process, there is significant variability in the diameter of the holes. It is the *larger* of the holes that must be smaller than the water droplets. Given this, and given sufficient dispersion in the distribution of hole sizes, some of the smaller holes may be too small to allow water vapor to pass through. This is where the differences arise. I would assert that it is harder to achieve uniform hole size when applying a microporous coating (in comparison with the manufacturing of the Gore-Tex membrane), and thus the microporous coatings have a higher variance in pore size. This implies a higher percentage of excessively small holes in the case of the microporous coatings, which would result in less breathability than with Gore-Tex. I hasten to add that this is just my own theory. But it would help to explain why the microporous coatings are either less breathable or--as in the case of Ultrex--both less breathable and less waterproof than Gore-Tex. Increasing the size of the smaller holes to improve breathability would increase the percentage of larger holes that allow water droplet penetration. So that's my crazy theory--the superior performance of Gore-Tex is due to greater uniformity of hole sizes in the manufacturing process. Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have a Palm Storm cag (breathable, built-in skirt, big enought to go over PFD, built in hood). This is my favorite piece of gear by far. Well worth the money if you seem to paddle through a lot of stormy weather. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ > ---------- > Strong endorsement on the Skaonarak. I have an ancient one --- > pre-breathable fabrics --- that is an all-purpose piece of rain gear. > Also picked up a slightly damaged (stained) Palm storm cag at a > kayak show --- fits over everything, including the cockpit rim and > the PFD, has a very effective hood, and is bright colored --- > flourescent yellow. No breathability, but is a great piece of gear for > paddling in cold rain. Long zipper so you can paddle with it in > place, and pull it up when needed, but you do have to pull it up over > your head otherwise. GRO has it in their catalog --- not cheap, but > not as expensive as the Patagucci Skanorak. But not as multi- > purpose as the Skanorak, either --- kinda hard explaining the storm > cag's skirt in the 7-11 when you're out for milk on a rainy day. > > Jack Martin > ************************************************************************** > * > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jerry: You might try buying a cycling jacket in a size bigger than your normal size. Campmor has a Pearl Izumi Zephyrr for sale for $25. Breathable microfiber, zipper, no hood, elastic at wrists and hem, short. Just buy it big. Not much on pockets, though. They also have an Activent jacket for $60, with a hem drawcord and more in the way of pockets. I prefer more boating specific paddling jackets that are more weatherproof, but these fit your criteria and are cheap. -- ___________________ Rob Gendreau Oakland, California gendreau_at_ccnet.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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