Matt Broze wrote:- >you can't buy this kind of advertising. >Greg Barton also took very good care of a customer of ours who broke a >graphite shaft Epic paddle in the surf (the most likely paddling location >where a paddle might break--especially unfeathered ones). Matt, I didn't understand why feathered paddles were less likely to break in the surf? PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/21/99 5:24:32 PM EST, PeterO_at_ambri.com.au writes: << Matt, I didn't understand why feathered paddles were less likely to break in the surf? >> I had this discussion with Mat after Tom L. broke his light weight paddle in big surf at LaPush, WA. I think an unfeathered paddle has an advantage in surf in that both blades can be flat in relation to the force of the water. A Flick of the wrist will align both blades. A take apart in the surf is more questionable then using an unfeathered paddle. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/23/99 11:01:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tomckayak_at_aol.com writes: << I think an unfeathered paddle has an advantage in surf in that both blades can be flat in relation to the force of the water. A Flick of the wrist will align both blades. >> Wrong! Besides Matt's contention that feathered paddles are less likely to break in the surf (I hadn't heard that one before either), a feathered paddle has other advantages as well. In punching through a wave in a kayak you will receive extra bonus points for momentum. Using the paddle to "grab" the wave and pull yourself through will help to assure that you make it to the other side. With a feathered paddle this will then align your upper blade to cut through the water with a minimum of resistance while the lower blade helps maintain momentum. With a traditional paddle if you "flick your wrists" to turn the blades edge to the oncoming wave your paddle will be static and not helping your cause. And if you try to pull your boat through the water with a traditional paddle then the upper blade will provide greater resistance in the water which will increase your work and decrease your chances of success. There is a very good reason why virtually every surfer who uses a wave ski, a pure surfing tool, also uses a feathered paddle. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Tomckayak_at_aol.com <Tomckayak_at_aol.com> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Feathered paddles & surf >In a message dated 4/21/99 5:24:32 PM EST, PeterO_at_ambri.com.au writes: > ><< Matt, I didn't understand why feathered paddles were less likely to break >in > the surf? > >> >I had this discussion with Mat after Tom L. broke his light weight paddle in >big surf at LaPush, WA. > I think an unfeathered paddle has an advantage in surf in that both blades >can be flat in relation to the force of the water. A Flick of the wrist will >align both blades. A take apart in the surf is more questionable then using >an unfeathered paddle. Tom: A flick of the wave will align them right back to flat. In fact, unless the blades meet the water almost perpendicular the edge of the blade that hits first will be pushed back, rotating the shaft until the whole blade is flat to the waters approach. This is much the same reason your kayak broaches suddenly when hit at a slight angle by a broken wave. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/23/99 7:19:28 PM EST, KiAyker_at_aol.com writes: << In punching through a wave in a kayak you will receive extra bonus points for momentum. Using the paddle to "grab" the wave and pull yourself through will help to assure that you make it to the other side. >> You punch the paddle straight into the on coming face and grab on the other side. Keep the paddle low to the deck and it helps to put your head down at that moment of impact. A feathered paddle is no advantage at that time. If you try to paddle though a green wall of water as it is about to brake, you will get the paddle shaft slammed in to your face. << There is a very good reason why virtually every surfer who uses a wave ski, a pure surfing tool, also uses a feathered paddle. >> Wave ski ? I am talking Sea kayak. People use feathered because everyone around them use feathered, its cool, then they come up with imagned advantages. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
But the feathered paddle won't be slammed back into your face nearly as hard as the unfeathered one will be. Because it can pivot it is unlikely you will test the comparative strengths of your neck and paddle shaft to see which breaks first as you might with unfeathered. A feathered stroke can be started sooner as the breaker passes from the "lean forward to punch through the wave" position you are advocating as well. An unfeathered paddle will not be able to be lifted to take a stroke until the rear blade is also clear of the water. There is another technique used for slipping through a wave. Laying back against the back deck is often used in kayaks other than sea kayaks, especially those with very low back decks (it reduces frontal area and also helps keep the bow from burying as deep when using a river or surf kayak). Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com -----Original Message----- From: Tomckayak_at_aol.com <Tomckayak_at_aol.com> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Feathered paddles & surf >In a message dated 4/23/99 7:19:28 PM EST, KiAyker_at_aol.com writes: > ><< In punching through a wave in a kayak you will > receive extra bonus points for momentum. Using the paddle to "grab" the wave > and pull yourself through will help to assure that you make it to the other > side. >> > >You punch the paddle straight into the on coming face and grab on the other >side. >Keep the paddle low to the deck and it helps to put your head down at that >moment of impact. A feathered paddle is no advantage at that time. If you try >to paddle though a green wall of water as it is about to brake, you will get >the paddle shaft slammed in to your face. > > > > ><< There is a very good reason why virtually every surfer who uses a wave >ski, a > pure surfing tool, also uses a feathered paddle. > >> > >Wave ski ? I am talking Sea kayak. >People use feathered because everyone around them use feathered, its cool, >then they come up with imagned advantages. > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I agree that the paddle is most likely to pivot if it is feathered, or if it does catch on the wave strongly it is likely boat, body and all will get shoved backward. Since most of our big surf on Lake Superior is that evil dumping shore break, I don't have too much experience punching out through waves much larger than 5 feet or so. However in my whitewater paddling I have punched through breaking waves up to 8 feet high and never had a paddle shoved in my face. I don't recall ever talking to a whitewater paddler who has had this happen to them. I have seen a friend pull his abdominal muscles from being violently slammed from leaning forward to head back on the rear deck, and had one friend who broke some ribs being beaten against his own kayak as he was doing violent multiple enders in a big hole (not by choice!). The violent power of breaking waves is for real, but the paddle hazard is minor especially if you are agressively reaching into the wave and pulling yourself through with a strong forward stroke. There was a time in whitewater days of old when some paddlers would hold their paddles up in the air when punching big waves or shooting a water fall with the thought of avoiding a paddle in the face. Not only will this slow you and increase your chance of getting stopped and back endered, but the high arm postion sets you up for a nice inverted body scoop brace combo and perhaps a double dislocation. William Nealy has a good illustration of this in one of his books with the caption " How To Get Munched In A Hole". The proper technique of leaning forward and pulling yourself through the wave with a forward stroke is entitled " How Not To Get Munched In A Hole ( Maybe)" Matt Broze wrote: > But the feathered paddle won't be slammed back into your face nearly as hard > as the unfeathered one will be. Because it can pivot it is unlikely you will > test the comparative strengths of your neck and paddle shaft to see which > breaks first as you might with unfeathered. > A feathered stroke can be started sooner as the breaker passes from the > "lean forward to punch through the wave" position you are advocating as > well. An unfeathered paddle will not be able to be lifted to take a stroke > until the rear blade is also clear of the water. > There is another technique used for slipping through a wave. Laying back > against the back deck is often used in kayaks other than sea kayaks, > especially those with very low back decks (it reduces frontal area and also > helps keep the bow from burying as deep when using a river or surf kayak). > Matt Broze > www.marinerkayaks.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Tomckayak_at_aol.com <Tomckayak_at_aol.com> > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 1:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Feathered paddles & surf > > >In a message dated 4/23/99 7:19:28 PM EST, KiAyker_at_aol.com writes: > > > ><< In punching through a wave in a kayak you will > > receive extra bonus points for momentum. Using the paddle to "grab" the > wave > > and pull yourself through will help to assure that you make it to the > other > > side. >> > > > >You punch the paddle straight into the on coming face and grab on the other > >side. > >Keep the paddle low to the deck and it helps to put your head down at that > >moment of impact. A feathered paddle is no advantage at that time. If you > try > >to paddle though a green wall of water as it is about to brake, you will > get > >the paddle shaft slammed in to your face. > > > > > > > > > ><< There is a very good reason why virtually every surfer who uses a wave > >ski, a > > pure surfing tool, also uses a feathered paddle. > > >> > > > >Wave ski ? I am talking Sea kayak. > >People use feathered because everyone around them use feathered, its cool, > >then they come up with imagned advantages. > > > >*************************************************************************** > >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > >*************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>I agree that the paddle is most likely to pivot if it is feathered, or if it >does catch on the wave strongly it is likely boat, body and all will get shoved >backward. Since most of our big surf on Lake Superior is that evil dumping >shore break, I don't have too much experience punching out through waves much >larger than 5 feet or so. However in my whitewater paddling I have punched >through breaking waves up to 8 feet high and never had a paddle shoved in my >face. I don't recall ever talking to a whitewater paddler who has had this >happen to them Would it make a difference that in whitewater (i.e. in a river) the wave stands still and the water moves through it, while in the surf the water is relatively stationary and the wave force moves through instead? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/26/99 8:13:13 PM EST, mkayaks_at_oz.net writes: << An unfeathered paddle will not be able to be lifted to take a stroke until the rear blade is also clear of the water.>> I have neaver noticed this problem. >>There is another technique used for slipping through a wave. Laying back against the back deck is often used in kayaks other than sea kayaks, especially those with very low back decks >> Can you show my this some time? Can it be used in a coster? With my new Lighting paddle with its small 25 degree feather, I must have the best of both worlds:) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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