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From: Dickson, Dana A. <dana.dickson_at_unisys.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:34:45 -0500
The peer reviewed medical literature on hydration supports the use of plain
water for maintaining hydration and rehydration.  With that, if the use of
sports drinks works for you, do it.  

I like the hydration system approach because I find I take lots of small
sips and take in more water with a hose than with a water bottle.

Dana
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Jim Champoux [mailto:jim_at_sigall.com]
 > Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:23 AM
 > To: Dickson, Dana A.; Paddle~Wise
 > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems
 > Importance: Low
 > 
 > 
 > Dana wrote.....
 > 
 > >Bob, Its hard to argue with personal experience for what 
 > makes you feel
 > >better when you paddle.  I have tried various electrolyte 
 > drinks and found
 > >for me that they don't work any better than plain water.
 > 
 > I was reading an article in some magazine about 
 > sports/electrolyte drinks
 > and while they were proven to work minimally better than 
 > water (absorbtion,
 > content) the bottom line was this; mix 16 oz of apple juice 
 > with 16 oz of
 > water add 1/3 tsp of salt and youve got your own.
 > 
 > 
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From: Bob Denton <BDenton_at_aquagulf.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:43:08 -0400
		Maybe those peers were in Minnesota and not Florida!

		cya
		
		The peer reviewed medical literature on hydration supports
the use of plain
		water for maintaining hydration and rehydration.  With that,
if the use of
		sports drinks works for you, do it.  

		I like the hydration system approach because I find I take
lots of small
		sips and take in more water with a hose than with a water
bottle.

		Dana
		 > -----Original Message-----
		 > From: Jim Champoux [mailto:jim_at_sigall.com]
		 > Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:23 AM
		 > To: Dickson, Dana A.; Paddle~Wise
		 > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems
		 > Importance: Low
		 > 
		 > 
		 > Dana wrote.....
		 > 
		 > >Bob, Its hard to argue with personal experience for what

		 > makes you feel
		 > >better when you paddle.  I have tried various
electrolyte 
		 > drinks and found
		 > >for me that they don't work any better than plain water.
		 > 
		 > I was reading an article in some magazine about 
		 > sports/electrolyte drinks
		 > and while they were proven to work minimally better than 
		 > water (absorbtion,
		 > content) the bottom line was this; mix 16 oz of apple
juice 
		 > with 16 oz of
		 > water add 1/3 tsp of salt and youve got your own.
		 > 
		 > 
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From: Dan Volker <dlv_at_gate.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:28:14 -0400
Peer review by "Doctors" on a nutrition issue? Aren't you aware that medical
doctors receive only one nutrition course in med school, and are in fact,
the LAST group you would go to for nutritional advice.

If you check with any elite level cyclists or triathletes ( athletes that
engage in an aerobic sport for many hours at a time) they will tell you
without question, that water is OK for an hour, but for longer efforts, your
body loses too much glycogen and electrolyte.
The effects are too obvious to challenge. In an 80 mile bike race, a racer
on water COULD NOT COMPETE with one on a product like Twin Lab's Hydra Fuel,
or Champion Nutrition's Cytomax, or other high tech equivalent. Gatorade is
considered total garbage by any elite level cyclist or triathlete---its far
to hypertonic, so it actually draws water OUT of your cells, unless you
dilute it 50/50, and even then, it derives it carb from a dextrose type
sugar, meaning you will get an insulin spike on drinking it, and use far too
much oxygen up digesting and metabolizing it.
Kayakers will benefit from smoother energy levels and much longer endurance,
if they continue hydration every 10 minutes or so with a product like Hydra
Fuel or Cytomax.

Regards,
Dan Volker

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Bob Denton
Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 10:43 AM
To: Dickson, Dana A.; 'Jim Champoux'; Paddle~Wise
Cc: Bob Denton
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes

                Maybe those peers were in Minnesota and not Florida!

                cya

                The peer reviewed medical literature on hydration supports
the use of plain
                water for maintaining hydration and rehydration.  With that,
if the use of
                sports drinks works for you, do it.

                I like the hydration system approach because I find I take
lots of small
                sips and take in more water with a hose than with a water
bottle.

                Dana
                 > -----Original Message-----
                 > From: Jim Champoux [mailto:jim_at_sigall.com]
                 > Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 9:23 AM
                 > To: Dickson, Dana A.; Paddle~Wise
                 > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems
                 > Importance: Low
                 >
                 >
                 > Dana wrote.....
                 >
                 > >Bob, Its hard to argue with personal experience for what

                 > makes you feel
                 > >better when you paddle.  I have tried various
electrolyte
                 > drinks and found
                 > >for me that they don't work any better than plain water.
                 >
                 > I was reading an article in some magazine about
                 > sports/electrolyte drinks
                 > and while they were proven to work minimally better than
                 > water (absorbtion,
                 > content) the bottom line was this; mix 16 oz of apple
juice
                 > with 16 oz of
                 > water add 1/3 tsp of salt and youve got your own.
                 >
                 >
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From: Bob Myers <bob_at_intelenet.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:20:56 -0700
On Apr 30, 12:28, "Dan Volker" wrote:
} Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes
> 
> If you check with any elite level cyclists or triathletes ( athletes that
> engage in an aerobic sport for many hours at a time) they will tell you
> without question, that water is OK for an hour, but for longer efforts, your
> body loses too much glycogen and electrolyte.

Except that elite level cyclists and triathletes are expending much more
energy and sweating a lot more than almost all kayakers, expending glycogen
and losing electrolytes at a much faster rate.  That "hour" doesn't apply
to us, by and large.

An article in the California Kayak Friends newsletter, at 
http://www.ckf.org/yak/December95.txt:

--------------------------------------------------------------


SOME THOUGHTS ON NEEDING TO BE RESCUED
WHY IT HAPPENS
AND WHAT TO DO TO PREVENT IT

by: STEPHEN A. WILLIAMS, RN, MEd
 PROGRAM DIRECTOR, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES
 MT. SAN ANTONIO COLLEGE
 1100 NORTH GRAND AVENUE
 WALNUT, CA  91789
 909-594-5611   Ext. 4657


 Steve has over 20 years background in Mountain Rescue, Search & Rescue, Air
Rescue.  The first 10 years as a Paramedic, the last 10 years as an RN.  He
is the Program Director and a Primary Instructor in the Paramedic Program at
Mt. San Antonio College, the top-ranked Paramedic Program in California.
 He is a regular at Southwind's Wednesday night social paddles and will be
glad t o tackle any emergency medical problems you'd like to suggest.
 He is a member of the Wilderness Medical Society, an international group of
outdoor-minded physicians and wilderness experts.  Steve attends frequent
wilderness medical seminars.

PADDLING ENERGY - For energy paddling, you need sugar and water and oxygen -
really, that's it.  Because of something called the "Glycemic Index," complex
carbohydrates (starches) are better for the long haul than simple
carbohydrates (sugars).  Some of the "Power Bar" type of stuff some athletes
eat contain a lot of protein (or its building blocks - the aminoacids).
 Unless you can drink large quantities of water, you are better off eating
carbohydrates than protein.  While you are actively exercising you are not
building up muscle, that happens after the exercise.  You will not break down
muscle if you have enough carbohydrates in your system while you exercise.
 Therefore, if you exercise for hours and eat proteins, your body goes
through a complex process to convert that nice protein into energy to burn
(basically turning the protein into sugar) - and the process produces more
waste than eating carbohydrates.

Your body can only store maybe 2 hours worth of carbohydrate energy, then if
you have not been replacing it along the way, your body goes into catabolism
- its tarts breaking down protein and fat for fuel.  Now I can hear you
saying, "Oh yeah!" - but you should know that the first target is the easier
to burn protein, not the fat.  That is why body builders trying to get huge
eat from 6-8 small meals per day.

WHAT FLUID SHOULD YOU DRINK?  Gatorade?  Plain water?  There is a large
misunderstanding in this area.  It comes from not knowing how we sweat.  When
one does light to moderate exercise (kayaking or peddling a bike on level
ground) in a cool to moderate climate (as we normally kayak in) then if you
break out in a sweat , you are losing 5 mEq (milliequivalents) of salt in
your sweat.  If you exercise heavily (football linemen, construction workers)
in a high heat environment (temperature and humidity) then your sweat
contains 120 mEq of salt.  That is why the former type of exercise never
leaves salt rings on your clothing like the latter does!  When the climate is
comfortable and you exercise lightly, you can get away with water.  But if
you are pushing it on a hot, humid day, you will understand why they needed
to invent that beverage if they were going to play football in Florida in the
sun - (that's right, it was invented in place of lemonade for the Florida
Gators in the Gator Bowl).  By the way, the human is the only animal we know
of that cannot rely on thirst to tell him when to drink.  The average adult
will have lost one to two pounds of water before becoming thirsty.  Force
fluids!  Drink more than you think you need.

WHAT CAUSES FATIGUE?  A lot of things, but one important one is not
delivering enough oxygen and fuel to muscles.  If you sprint, you can easily
experience the fade out of power when you can't deliver enough oxygen to your
muscles as fast a s they burn it.  Well, the same thing goes for fuel
(carbohydrates).  If the muscle runs out, fatigue sets in.  But another big
factor in fatigue is dehydration .  As you sweat (or pee) you lose water.
 This results in your blood actually becoming thicker.  It does not flow as
fast, and will not supply fuel to your muscles as well.  One of the signs of
dehydration is having no appetite (and having a bad attitude).  Ever "been
there - done that?" How about a deck bag of grapes?

If you are going to exercise for more than 15 minutes, you need to drink.  If
you are going to exercise for more than 2 hours, you need to replace fuel.
 You ca n drink it in a sport drink, killing the proverbial 2 birds, or you
can bring along water and then have some sort of carbohydrate at hand to
ibble on while paddling.

Personally, I am not into endurance kayaking - (sorry, George, paddling to
Anacapa is not in my future).  But, on searches I have hiked from dawn to
well into the night.  Long distance hikers know the value of a good
breakfast.  Then, lunch is the meal that stretches from breakfast till dinner
- and should be eaten in that manner, a little at a time - the same way it is
burned - every hour of the day. 

Adequate hydration and adequate food intake will make your paddling seem
nicer, and less like an ordeal - it will even improve your attitude.  It will
also keep you safer - when you need that burst of energy to get yourself out
of trouble.

The rule for hiking - never hike out farther than you want to (and are able
to) hike back - probably applies to kayaking also.  Except that in kayaking,
add that the wind will turn and be blowing in your face on the way back.
 Don't ask me how the wind knows when to do that - it just does!  Maybe it
listens to the Laws of some guy named Murphy.

HAPPY  &  SAFE  PADDLING!  MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!

-- 
Bob Myers                          InteleNet Communications, Inc.
Email: bob_at_InteleNet.net           18101 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 550
Phone: 949-851-8250 x227           Irvine, CA 92612
Fax:   949-851-1088                http://www.intelenet.net/
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From: Robert L. Thomasson <BobThomasson_at_compuserve.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hydration systems/electrolytes
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:04:47 -0400
I'm certainly not an elite cyclist, but I did finish the Markleeville Death
Ride last summer, 129 miles and  16,000 vertical feet of climbing in a day
(at the age of 51), and I think I'm qualified to second Dan's comments.  I
think that where there may be some confusion is in the level of exercise or
endurance.  For an easy few hours of paddling, water may be fine, but for
anything requiring real endurance, water won't work - you really need
Cytomax or something equal.

Bob
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